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61 agility in decline. still too high for you?

http://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/player.pl?player_id=4718136
 
shepsterbird
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70 agility
http://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/player.pl?player_id=4714226
 
Guppy, Inc
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Originally posted by crazypapasmurf
61 agility in decline. still too high for you?

http://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/player.pl?player_id=4718136


yeah, too high but thanks

Originally posted by shepsterbird
70 agility
http://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/player.pl?player_id=4714226


and comes right in time for the 2nd half of my theory where i'm looking for agility over 70.

so i might as well spill the beans since everyone is being helpful. my theory is about angled KO. so if you draw an endline at the goalline, then divide the field into thirds, the lower the agility, the higher the % of KO that stay in the middle, but as agility goes up, the KOs start drifting more often to the sidelines, which I hate as it puts the coverage team at a disadvantage. then, part 2, when agility gets over 70, the % ending in the middle starts to go back up again. BUT, agility is supposed to help with FG accuracy at longer FG, so do the lower agility have a lower FG% over 50? The reason I draw the line at the goalline for example that a 77 yard KO that is returned, I count where it crosses the GL because more of those are going to be TBs. and maybe 70 agility is too high and maybe thats just what got my attention, and its really lower. like agility/center of field is an inverse bell curve.
 
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Originally posted by Guppy, Inc
and comes right in time for the 2nd half of my theory where i'm looking for agility over 70.

so i might as well spill the beans since everyone is being helpful. my theory is about angled KO. so if you draw an endline at the goalline, then divide the field into thirds, the lower the agility, the higher the % of KO that stay in the middle, but as agility goes up, the KOs start drifting more often to the sidelines, which I hate as it puts the coverage team at a disadvantage. then, part 2, when agility gets over 70, the % ending in the middle starts to go back up again. BUT, agility is supposed to help with FG accuracy at longer FG, so do the lower agility have a lower FG% over 50? The reason I draw the line at the goalline for example that a 77 yard KO that is returned, I count where it crosses the GL because more of those are going to be TBs. and maybe 70 agility is too high and maybe thats just what got my attention, and its really lower. like agility/center of field is an inverse bell curve.



Fascinating theory!
 
Theo Wizzago
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Gup, might I ask you if (with your theory) all other skills are either similar OR filled out? Important (IMO) because, if I'm reading your idea correctly, you're describing a 'growing kicker' (one being built over time and not the finished product)... in which case the difference in other factors combined with agility could effect the outcome. Lemme try an example;
Kicker A has 57 agility, 89 strength, 101 kicking, and 50 vision.
Kicker B has 57 agility, 80 strength, 101 kicking, and 70 vision
(All other SP's can be doled out elsewhere to create these 2 kickers of the same level and age.)

Perhaps Kicker A's kicks tend to go much more sideline-wise than kicker B's does... in which case you could make an argument that either less strength or more vision could be effecting the outcome. I only ask/say all this because I've made the same mistakes when comparing dots myself... not knowing exactly how each skill works with the other to create an overall effect during a game. Qb's that throw too many 'bad throws'... WR's that drop too many passes... punters that are too erratic in their punting distances... kickers that can't seem to make kicks at a certain range... ect, ect, ect. I found that trying to tie it to one skill only tended to throw off my assumptions/observations. Just tossing that out there as food for thought.
 
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Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
Gup, might I ask you if (with your theory) all other skills are either similar OR filled out? Important (IMO) because, if I'm reading your idea correctly, you're describing a 'growing kicker' (one being built over time and not the finished product)... in which case the difference in other factors combined with agility could effect the outcome. Lemme try an example;
Kicker A has 57 agility, 89 strength, 101 kicking, and 50 vision.
Kicker B has 57 agility, 80 strength, 101 kicking, and 70 vision
(All other SP's can be doled out elsewhere to create these 2 kickers of the same level and age.)

Perhaps Kicker A's kicks tend to go much more sideline-wise than kicker B's does... in which case you could make an argument that either less strength or more vision could be effecting the outcome. I only ask/say all this because I've made the same mistakes when comparing dots myself... not knowing exactly how each skill works with the other to create an overall effect during a game. Qb's that throw too many 'bad throws'... WR's that drop too many passes... punters that are too erratic in their punting distances... kickers that can't seem to make kicks at a certain range... ect, ect, ect. I found that trying to tie it to one skill only tended to throw off my assumptions/observations. Just tossing that out there as food for thought.


the title of this thread is a PLATEAU kicker, and i only care about end builds. a THEORY is something that has been neither proven to be fact nor fiction as of yet. yes all the attributes play off each other but it's also known that certain attributes affect certain on field performance, and the goal has always been to figure out which attributes affect what. then there's the fact that the RNG can play havoc on any theory.

i dont just guess at these things. i see patterns, then I look for other examples to see whether the pattern holds or not. i saw enough examples that the theory seemed to hold up, but not enough that I could start to treat it as a fact. I define a fact in GLB if it holds up 80%+ of the time, or it was confirmed at some point by bort/dd/catch22. so I asked for more examples, and since I dont plan to build any more kickers, there was no point in keeping this THEORY to myself. now that people know what to look for, I'm hoping they will post their observations to see if the theory holds up, or gets disproved.
 
OklahomaWolf
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The real theory is how much does agility and speed matter on a kicker
 
Guppy, Inc
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Originally posted by OklahomaWolf
The real theory is how much does agility and speed matter on a kicker


this is to figure out agility. speed depends on what you want to do. if you want a kicker that tackles, then 100+ and dont do that....lol. kickers kick, let the tacklers do their jobs. speed affects KO distance. so you can increase the number of TBs by adding speed. I dont do that because top teams load up on FF guys, and TBs mean fewer chances for FFs. So I want my kickers getting 70 +-2 yards so that the returners will try to return it. so thats where the whole how much strength/kicking comes into play. i dont have the correlation between the 3, so I strictly look at on field performance for that. you also have to weigh in big boot and booming kick. it also depends on whether you are building a WL kicker who might play 10-12 plays a game vs a pro kicker you might play 30. at this point, everyone should be building for WL, but there are only 12 slots for those, and in reality, if you are kicking 30 times, then it's a blowout and it doesnt really matter any ways.
 
Theo Wizzago
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Originally posted by OklahomaWolf
The real theory is how much does agility and speed matter on a kicker


Originally posted by Guppy, Inc
this is to figure out agility. speed depends on what you want to do. if you want a kicker that tackles, then 100+ and dont do that....lol. kickers kick, let the tacklers do their jobs. speed affects KO distance. so you can increase the number of TBs by adding speed. I dont do that because top teams load up on FF guys, and TBs mean fewer chances for FFs. So I want my kickers getting 70 +-2 yards so that the returners will try to return it. so thats where the whole how much strength/kicking comes into play. i dont have the correlation between the 3, so I strictly look at on field performance for that. you also have to weigh in big boot and booming kick. it also depends on whether you are building a WL kicker who might play 10-12 plays a game vs a pro kicker you might play 30. at this point, everyone should be building for WL, but there are only 12 slots for those, and in reality, if you are kicking 30 times, then it's a blowout and it doesnt really matter any ways.


Agree. Unlike punters, a kickers' #1 job is to make FG's and XP's. Kickoffs, if happening a lot, don't matter as much because you're likely winning anyways. Otherwise a Kicker only kicks off maybe 5 times a game on average. When real good teams face each other, the punter gets used way more than the kicker does. So speed really only comes into play in avoiding blocked kicks... aka, how fast can your kicker get to and kick the ball before the defender(s) get to him. I've never seen a need for speed beyond 50 and that's probably excessive by some builders' standards.


Originally posted by Guppy, Inc
the title of this thread is a PLATEAU kicker, and i only care about end builds. a THEORY is something that has been neither proven to be fact nor fiction as of yet. yes all the attributes play off each other but it's also known that certain attributes affect certain on field performance, and the goal has always been to figure out which attributes affect what. then there's the fact that the RNG can play havoc on any theory.

i dont just guess at these things. i see patterns, then I look for other examples to see whether the pattern holds or not. i saw enough examples that the theory seemed to hold up, but not enough that I could start to treat it as a fact. I define a fact in GLB if it holds up 80%+ of the time, or it was confirmed at some point by bort/dd/catch22. so I asked for more examples, and since I dont plan to build any more kickers, there was no point in keeping this THEORY to myself. now that people know what to look for, I'm hoping they will post their observations to see if the theory holds up, or gets disproved.


Thanks Gup. I misunderstood your post just above my reply I guess. Still, I get what you're aiming at. As for what the best agility # might be? I'm comfortable with whatever I end up with at the end as long as Confidence, Kicking, and Strength are as high as I can get them... with Vision being a distant secondary skill and Agility behind that. I could be wrong though. I just reckon that Kicking is the main skill that deals with the main two kicking problems... distance and accuracy. Confidence is for making pressure kicks and helps with those longer (tough) FG's... and Strength is what helps with distance and, also, how accuracy is effected as well (by determining the 'comfort zone' of where the distance starts to effect accuracy and by how much). Vision and Agility are simply helping skills that boost what the big 3 can do, IMO. TBH, I have never ever seen a kickoff go out of bounds and I think that's because GLB hated penalties so much that the only ones there are are false start and off sides... so kickoff out of bounds penalty doesn't exist... so kickoffs cannot go out of bounds. They do go off to the sides though as you noted. I simply never equated that to agility... but reckoned it was something good kickers did to limit the returner by pinching the field down on him. Your agility idea will get me thinking on that now.

 
shepsterbird
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Well,the only ability I think to look at now is stamina. But,would seem a low stamina would be shorter kicks? Apparently not with my own kicker.

I think I have too much str for precision kicker,Wanting to hit those long fg ,but too many TB as well.
Edited by shepsterbird on Oct 9, 2019 04:05:55
 
Guppy, Inc
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Originally posted by shepsterbird
Well,the only ability I think to look at now is stamina. But,would seem a low stamina would be shorter kicks? Apparently not with my own kicker.

I think I have too much str for precision kicker,Wanting to hit those long fg ,but too many TB as well.


yeah, low stamina can mess up kicks and FGs, but not sure it has much effect on angles. i used to just assumed that jumping was involved since thats the effect it has on punts. but i used to do so many teams, that kickers tended to blend together. it wasnt until this season when my team count was way lower that i started noticing that certain kickers tended to kick more down the middle.

I'm building 2 kickers, and neither has even 90 in strength and are getting to many TBs for my taste. seems like most WL teams dont want to risk the missed long FG, so people trying to build for 60+ yard FGs are wasting too many training/SPs on strength. and I dont know why any competent STC would want large numbers of TBs. not sure if you can have too much strength for FGs. long FG are mostly just kicking/vision/confidence
 
stizz
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Thanks for the trip down memory lane, as I looked through my retired players...

Highest agil K I had was 73 agility http://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/player.pl?player_id=1480280 if that helps

more recent build with 71 agil http://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/player.pl?player_id=4486041
Edited by stizz on Oct 9, 2019 16:56:58
 
Guppy, Inc
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Originally posted by stizz
Thanks for the trip down memory lane, as I looked through my retired players...

Highest agil K I had was 73 agility http://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/player.pl?player_id=1480280 if that helps

more recent build with 71 agil http://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/player.pl?player_id=4486041


 
Theo Wizzago
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Originally posted by Guppy, Inc
yeah, low stamina can mess up kicks and FGs, but not sure it has much effect on angles. i used to just assumed that jumping was involved since thats the effect it has on punts. but i used to do so many teams, that kickers tended to blend together. it wasnt until this season when my team count was way lower that i started noticing that certain kickers tended to kick more down the middle.

I'm building 2 kickers, and neither has even 90 in strength and are getting to many TBs for my taste. seems like most WL teams dont want to risk the missed long FG, so people trying to build for 60+ yard FGs are wasting too many training/SPs on strength. and I dont know why any competent STC would want large numbers of TBs. not sure if you can have too much strength for FGs. long FG are mostly just kicking/vision/confidence


I don't know if I'm correct in my assumptions with kickers but I think there's more to this than meets the eye. When you're trying to set Max FG distance for your kickers in the Ai I noticed that the Kicker almost always kicks the kickoffs much farther than it can kick FG's. At first I over-guessed the max FG range due to that. Even at the higher levels, the kicker can nail a 60 yarder now and then but the kickoffs tend to sail 70 or more yards. All of this leads me to believe that the Kicking Skill is what effects distance much more than Strength does. I'd even go so far as to compare a Kicker to a QB. Throwing for a QB determines just about everything when passing... how accurate and how fast the ball gets to the receiver... how far a pass can be thrown... ect, ect. It's augmented by other skills... Vision helps with accuracy... Agility helps with accuracy also... Strength tends to effect how quickly the ball gets to the receiver as well as helping with pushing the distance an accurate throw can be made. I suspect a 50 strength QB can attempt a 30 yard pass just the same as a 90 strength QB can. The difference would be in how accurate the pass would be (and how fast the ball gets to the receiver). I know I'm simplifying everything but, back to kickers.
A kickoff tends to go farther the higher the kicking skill... even if you don't address Strength much, or at all. Especially early in the build where Strength is what you put SP's into after you've pushed Kicking high enough. But FG's at that same level tend to suck beans. I get 50+ yard kickoffs but can't kick a 30 yard FG for crap! So, I suspect your issues with the kickoff distance will always be there because you can't have a kicker with low kicking skill... and lowering strength won't really effect kickoffs all that much... but it would hurt you in the 40+ FG attempts, IMO.
I had posted/complained recently that it sucked that Punters get a slider for distance vs hangtime... while kickers just kick. No slider for kickoffs to say, kick for more hangtime or for more distance?
 
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