Warrior General Games

If i choose my qb progressions on every play and dont expect the qb to have multiple reads... is vision then not a factor in my quarterback build?

throw>vis>str always imo.

never neglect vision. your progressions dont mean anything with a qb that cant see anything.

but the line of vision is on whoever i pick as the first target, so this idea kind of ties in with the running qb thread. If i neglected vision on my scrambling QB and just choose one or two targets each play would vision matter at all to the passing quality of a one read quarterback.

if you want the ball to actually go to the receiver it does.

yeah thats what im asking, so even if his vision is 8 and i pick one read for the five reads on the play he will choose not to throw it?

he may choose to throw it but it isnt going to the guy he chooses to throw to lol.

like ie:bad pass even if his Throwing was high? and his read was open?

yes

Originally posted by Fred Ex
yeah thats what im asking, so even if his vision is 8 and i pick one read for the five reads on the play he will choose not to throw it?

Vision doesn't just help him with his progressions. Vision also affects his awareness of the position of the defender covering your receiver, plus his awareness of the zone assignments and positions of any nearby zone defenders, plus his awareness of where the receiver is and where the receiver is going, plus his awareness of if the receiver is currently open or covered and whether or not that's about to change, plus the location of any blitzers and whether or not they're about to knock your QB into the next zip code, plus the accuracy and the timing of the throw.

So, if your QB has 8 Vision, he might stare down an open receiver and refuse to throw it because he thinks a defender is too close, even if he's not. Or he'll throw to the receiver and miss the LB who is playing a zone underneath and get picked off. Or he'll over-lead or under-lead the receiver on a crossing route. Or he'll throw the ball at the precise moment the receiver makes a cut and miss his man. Or he'll be waiting for the perfect window to throw it and get nailed by the blitzing safety coming from the edge because he vailed his Vision check on recognizing the blitz.

Vision does a lot more for a QB than you think it does.

Yeah thats what my question was, if vision factors into all of what you just listed and not just fast progressions. I was just thinking in terms of building a dual threat and actually making it work. If you had to pick an attribute of Atlanta Vick, it would of been low vision. His coordinator picked one read maybe two and then said if its not open run. so i was thinking in terms of this....

vision determines whether the receiver is open. i hate when QBs look at a wide open receiver then moves onto the next progression instead of throwing it. then throws into double coverage.

Yeah I watched the world league championship game and dudes with 97 gold quarterback ratings were still missing wide open wideouts begging for the ball. thats kind of where this is coming from.

Originally posted by Fred Ex
Yeah thats what my question was, if vision factors into all of what you just listed and not just fast progressions. I was just thinking in terms of building a dual threat and actually making it work. If you had to pick an attribute of Atlanta Vick, it would of been low vision. His coordinator picked one read maybe two and then said if its not open run. so i was thinking in terms of this....

Novus is mostly spot on but this needs to be added into the process. A QB with low vision takes longer to determine the receiver's 'openness'. So, in a way, Vision does determine the speed of the QB to read the progressions along with all of what Novus posted. Found that out the hard way this past season as I have came in on a finished team which reset to rookie after the two seasons that I was there. Our QB at the top level zipped through his progressions just fine. Our Rookie level QB with much lower vision sometimes got stuck on one receiver and even if that didn't happen, it took him a LOT longer to work through the progression tree. That's not throwing skill... or strength... or agility... just vision issues.

Originally posted by Fred Ex
Yeah I watched the world league championship game and dudes with 97 gold quarterback ratings were still missing wide open wideouts begging for the ball. thats kind of where this is coming from.

Don't neglect those SA's and VA's that help you with finding the open man and hitting the target. Things like the nearness of a defender will effect a QB's accuracy if his confidence is too low and his ability to ignore/deal with a pass rush is not good enough.

One thing I'd like to ask a few here is about Field General SA. When I read it it says it helps with receivers getting open and making completions. I've never used it myself. Worth it? Does it do all that and help with morale??? Would make it pretty damn valuable if true.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago

One thing I'd like to ask a few here is about Field General SA. When I read it it says it helps with receivers getting open and making completions. I've never used it myself. Worth it? Does it do all that and help with morale??? Would make it pretty damn valuable if true.

It goes about that in a round-about way. It is another version of the 'energy/morale enhancers'
When it fires it increases the energy and morale of everyone who's lined up on offense.
This helps the receivers get open and catch passes by virtue of them being fresh and confident.
I think its very useful, especially as a counter to AoI- but its not what it sounds like in the description:
its not gonna make the receivers more skilled, but fresh and assured could result in better performance

Originally posted by Fred Ex
Yeah I watched the world league championship game and dudes with 97 gold quarterback ratings were still missing wide open wideouts begging for the ball. thats kind of where this is coming from.

This in itself is a good reason not to go w/ single reads!
The only way a decent vision QB misses "I'm Open" guys is because his vision cone
never takes him a bit near to that receiver. If the QB has any kind of vision he will see it if he's looking at all nearby-
that specific receiver doesn't even need to necessarily be targeted next- the QB just has to look in that 'direction'.

What exactly kind of "low vision" are we talking about here?
If you mean ~80, that is basically how i made my dual-threat QB. Anything too much less than that is trouble.
As it is, the low vision hurts pump-fake ability, which can be a QB's biggest weapon. On top of that,
those 'wayward' throws you see when a QB can't decide where the window is, and instead of
putting it 'where only the receiver can get to it' he puts it to where no one can get to it happen often.
It does in effect make that Vick-like bang or bust though- the passes are sometimes great, but sometimes
its impossible to tell visually who the hell he's even throwing at. Fortunately for those in this boat,
the misses are so bad, they're usually impossible to INT, so at least he won't be a nate peterson.

So in closing, I'd say: ideally, you want as much vision as you can get.
If doing a dual threat, vision probably needs to be lower, which is without a doubt your biggest weakness then.
Sacrifice as little of it as possible. Finally. never, ever, never-ever do that stupid single-read shit.
Not only does it make the offense beyond easy to GP out of existence, but it ensures you never see "I'm Open"
while incentivizing the defense to not even bother covering those players. If utilizing a low-vision QB,
think 'simplification' of the reads, not 'simplistic'. Simplified can be efficient; simplistic can get your ass handed to you...