Warrior General Games

Which would you think better for a CB w/ 164 speed, 95 agility, 80 jump, only mid 20's catching: 10 Swat Ball, 5 Sticky Hands, 7 First Step; or 9 SB, 7 SH, 7 FS, or 10 SB, 7 SH, and 6 FS (with one less stamina and agility)? I am not sure if Sticky Hands is important having such low catching or useless.

Also, i'm thinking of putting the 4 points of speed from TS VA into agility instead... would that make sense?

-edit- I apologize for misspelling catching in the heading; wish I could fix it lol

i dont understand anything you just said. thats just one long ass ramble.

With catching only in the 20's, sticky hands is pretty pointless.

Originally posted by Seric
With catching only in the 20's, sticky hands is pretty pointless.

Agree. Also, Super Vision much better than Swat Ball IMO. You didn't mention ending Vision but it's the most important skill for DB's (IMO).

Good VA's would be Football Genius (vision), 3rd Down Stopper, and Long Reach. If CB is Zone arch or will be playing a LOT of zone, Ball Hawk is also good. If your tacking feels too low, Death Grip is another good one.

As for that 'other problem'.... https://www.medline.com/category/Catheters/cat330017

Disagree on long reach. Haven’t recommended it in SEASONS.

Discuss.

Originally posted by Farlig
Disagree on long reach. Haven’t recommended it in SEASONS.

Discuss.

Reason I listed it was because he already has good jumping (have no idea how tall he made his dot though so...) which helps it out as it allows a re-try of the deflection roll. Just like Sticky Hands makes sense only if you have good catching, Long reach makes sense only if you have good deflecting ability already. Since he's heading for 80 jumping and pushing deflecting abilities/sa's, then Long Reach does work for him. If he only had 40 or less jumping and a short build (height) then I wouldn't advocate it. Getting a second chance as something you're not good at to start with doesn't make good sense.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
Agree. Also, Super Vision much better than Swat Ball IMO. You didn't mention ending Vision but it's the most important skill for DB's (IMO).

Good VA's would be Football Genius (vision), 3rd Down Stopper, and Long Reach. If CB is Zone arch or will be playing a LOT of zone, Ball Hawk is also good. If your tacking feels too low, Death Grip is another good one.

As for that 'other problem'.... https://www.medline.com/category/Catheters/cat330017



Yeah, I've already got 10 SV w/ his 4th AEQ, and deflecting passes is his strength (has +21% deflect along with +15% MT and avoid fake). For his VAs he's got 15 in 3DS, LR, and ST, with the rest divided equally amongst DvG and Track Star. I was thinking now that he's at the end of the build to switch that TS out for agility or vision. I kinda like the idea of having near 100 agility, but his vision is only mid 80's so thgat might be more important, i'm not sure. He's rarely in zone so his focus is on m2m coverage rather than zone. He's not a big tackler (only 50 flat strength and 67 cap tackle plus he's tiny) so I'm going with sure tackle and DvG VAs and his additional SA as Wrap-Up tackle. I figure DvG is worthwhile as no one is lighter than him, and it almost makes me want to keep the strength even lower than 50 for the WRs who are exactly as small as him, but that's probably not a good idea.

Originally posted by Seric
With catching only in the 20's, sticky hands is pretty pointless.

For some reason, I always thought Sticky Hands SA said something about 'improving catching regardless of catching att' (it obviously doesn't) but I swore I remember hearing that somewhere and I know for a fact I've been told it's useless for a player who DOES have great catching attribute (that makes to sense to me) but since I focus on the defensive side of the ball, i never paid much attention to it. I figured since this CB has more INTs than most of the players on the team who actually have better catching att that it might help him snag a couple more, but if its useless I'd be better served into putting those points into something else. I think his 8 quick cut is pretty good, if I keep SH at 3 I can get 8 in First Step too, plus Shutdown Cov to 5. That's about the highest I can get it- I hope that is ok, as I've been told its not really that great and SV is much better so I went for that instead. So that'd be 10 in Swat Ball and 10 SVision, 5 in SCov, 8 in FS, 8 QC and 8 Wrap-Up. That is about the best set-up I can do with this build I guess, as I felt it important that his speed and agility were equal to anyone and his jumping up there (he is Sonic the Hedgehog after all).

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
Reason I listed it was because he already has good jumping (have no idea how tall he made his dot though so...) which helps it out as it allows a re-try of the deflection roll. Just like Sticky Hands makes sense only if you have good catching, Long reach makes sense only if you have good deflecting ability already. Since he's heading for 80 jumping and pushing deflecting abilities/sa's, then Long Reach does work for him. If he only had 40 or less jumping and a short build (height) then I wouldn't advocate it. Getting a second chance as something you're not good at to start with doesn't make good sense.

You hit the nail on the head but didn’t realize it apparently. Getting a second chance at a PD that already doesn’t have a high success rate especially in a sim that favors the run is exactly why I don’t recommend it. I’ve found better uses for those VAs.

Originally posted by Farlig
You hit the nail on the head but didn’t realize it apparently. Getting a second chance at a PD that already doesn’t have a high success rate especially in a sim that favors the run is exactly why I don’t recommend it. I’ve found better uses for those VAs.

There are several VA's that if you do not have the complimentary skill set(s) to make it worthy of getting then there are other VA's that will serve you far better. However, if you're dot is built to accomplish certain or specific things then VA's like Long Reach are quite useful.



Originally posted by 420sega
For some reason, I always thought Sticky Hands SA said something about 'improving catching regardless of catching att' (it obviously doesn't) but I swore I remember hearing that somewhere and I know for a fact I've been told it's useless for a player who DOES have great catching attribute (that makes to sense to me) but since I focus on the defensive side of the ball, i never paid much attention to it. I figured since this CB has more INTs than most of the players on the team who actually have better catching att that it might help him snag a couple more, but if its useless I'd be better served into putting those points into something else. I think his 8 quick cut is pretty good, if I keep SH at 3 I can get 8 in First Step too, plus Shutdown Cov to 5. That's about the highest I can get it- I hope that is ok, as I've been told its not really that great and SV is much better so I went for that instead. So that'd be 10 in Swat Ball and 10 SVision, 5 in SCov, 8 in FS, 8 QC and 8 Wrap-Up. That is about the best set-up I can do with this build I guess, as I felt it important that his speed and agility were equal to anyone and his jumping up there (he is Sonic the Hedgehog after all).

Sticky hands will still work for a dot with only 10 catching... but it would be like saying a drop of rain makes a wetter desert. Like I replied to Farlig, if you're building your dot for certain uses/purposes then you want SA's and VA's that compliment your build and a SA that helps with catching... when you have none or very little... there are simply better SA's that will help you a LOT more.
Also, you're going to still get INT's even without that SA or a lot of catching. I don't have any #'s to post behind this but most INT's come from two situations... the 'batted ball' and the 'bad throw'. With your dot, increasing the batted ball possibilities increases the chances of the ball getting picked off... even IF your dot isn't the one doing the picking. More chances = more picks even for a dot with little catching and no Sticky Hands. I have built several 'deflect ball' style DB's and LB's. They're very useful and very fun to build and watch play.

Much of the same. I see Football Genius and Sure tackler as the only must-have VAs for corners, though I do tend to like the value of textbook tackler for most (especially in the current sim).

I agree with theo that if you're not an intercept corner, long reach is okay I guess, though DvG, track star, quick, and high jumper are all decent alternatives. Oh, and 3rd down stopper. And clutch. So maybe I actually agree more with farliq.

Sticky hands on a low-catch corner isn't going to be worth it. For that matter, I'm not a fan of First step, as especially with a very fast CB, I don't think a WR is going to blow by him because he didn't get off the ball fast enough. I do love Change Direction though, or redirect those points into Tackle or stamina.

It's a really great build overall, good luck finishing it up

Theo, if you want a chance to reroll something the vast majority of CBs fail at greater than 50% of the time have at it. As nexill eventually figured out as he kept typing it is easy to fill up a CBs VA bank without thinking twice about not taking long reach. And he didn’t even mention never give up.

Theo, I prefer investing AEQ into % gear as you can’t invest in it any other way.

Originally posted by Farlig
Theo, if you want a chance to reroll something the vast majority of CBs fail at greater than 50% of the time have at it. As nexill eventually figured out as he kept typing it is easy to fill up a CBs VA bank without thinking twice about not taking long reach. And he didn’t even mention never give up.



I'm not a fan of never give up for a reason. I used it and saw it on ST's a lot. It gives the trailing dot one hellvua burst of speed... until it gets about 3 yards behind the runner.... then he slows down again... speeds up again... slows down again... speeds up again... slows down again.. never catching the dot with the ball. Very frustrating VA. It should at LEAST allow the dot to close within diving tackle attempt range before it turns back off again. I mean, sheesh.
And I'm not disagreeing with you that planing out the VA's that best serve your build is the best way to go. Just noting that Long Reach is viable and decent... on the right dot.

Are you sure you are talking about NGU or closing speed?

Originally posted by Sonic
Theo, I prefer investing AEQ into % gear as you can’t invest in it any other way.

I do think and agree, in most cases, that's the best value.. However, with some builds if you can snag a piece that covers the high end of the SA tree (4th or 5th SA) then that is also a great value. It takes a LOT of SPs to get the last two SA's on the tree up to 10 (preferred number) because you have to fill in the one's in front of them a lot and the (SP) cost increases with each # you move them up. So, if you have a build where you can afford to get a 4th AEQ and still get the % pieces you need with the other 3 and CEQ, then getting one of those high tree SA's is a good route to go sometimes. I use to use it on the Bonus SA but learned that's a waste since the cost to raise that is static (it's not in the tree so it's pretty easy to bump it up with SP's). And I would say never use AEQ to get a lower tier SA on the tree... it just isn't worth it at all IMO.