Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Jeff Williams
Anyone have an opinion on this? My G has a +3 strength piece for his 4th piece of equipment, and I have 18 BT for the ability cost. Should I buy First Step SA or get a 3rd HB% piece? It seems like HB% is the obvious choice, but then he won't have First Step SA at all and that seems like something he should have, but on the other hand the extra 3% to hold block% might be more important.

What is your CEQ in? HB%? If it is then you already have 3 HB% pieces and a 4th would be mostly worthless. Also, others might be but I am not a fan of 1st step on the O-line... unless you have plenty high Vision and Confidence to keep from getting a lot of false starts to go with it. It's good for pulling guards but then, so is plenty of agility and speed.
Also, if 18 BT's is all you have left and your guard is already at level 73, you likely will not get enough BT's with time remaining to purchase HB% (cost is 75 BT's just to add it onto your +3 strength piece).

Maybe I over thought this...

I assumed 18 BTs for a +2 piece which would be +12 as a 3rd piece (divided by 4) would be 3% total. On top of the 20%+ he already has.

Personally, I'd issue the CEQ bonus over the AEQ bonus. Aoi is an 18 point SA. You could either save 24 SPs, or take Aoi over 10. 24 SPs is another whole cap in something.

The o-line needs to be above 21% in HB, which requires 3 pieces somehow.

His CEQ is in HB% along with a +15% HB AEQ, making 21% total. Rolled a +3 strength Pancake, a +3 strength Cut Block, and a blank +3 strength AEQ, so I got those and figured i'd spend the 75 BT to make that a +5% Hold Block, and buy first step as an additional ability (he already has AoI and Pummel as the first 2). However now it turns out he has not enough BT for any of that, only 18 will remain, so he can either forgo FS altogether and get the +2% HB which will give a total of +24% HB with all the AEQ and CEQ together, or lose out on that extra 3% HB but get 6 First Step for those 18 BT. It sounds like consensus is on the +3 HB, which makes sense to me- the only thing is with outside running as important as it is, I'd like to see him get there to the edge on a more consistent basis and i thought FS SA might accomplish that. He''ll have around 90 agility, mid 70 speed and 70 vision, and its too late to change any of that except by rearranging VAs. It may be that first step won't significantly help anyhow with his speed being low but I've never seen what it does with a player on the o-line.

1st Step is mostly a math booster, as opposed to a speed boost.

When blockers collide there's a Force factor in the roll. Weight and Speed. 1st Step gives a player instant Speed, therefore more force.

The trick with 1st Step is that more SA points in it give it a better chance to fire, and also increases the amount of boost. Most people use 1st as an all-or-nothing. Either Max it, or don't bother.

If you already were at 24% HB, and could also get 1st Step it'd probably be worth it for you.


Pulling Lineman VA is your best bet now, all things considered.

Originally posted by Jeff Williams
His CEQ is in HB% along with a +15% HB AEQ, making 21% total. Rolled a +3 strength Pancake, a +3 strength Cut Block, and a blank +3 strength AEQ, so I got those and figured i'd spend the 75 BT to make that a +5% Hold Block, and buy first step as an additional ability (he already has AoI and Pummel as the first 2). However now it turns out he has not enough BT for any of that, only 18 will remain, so he can either forgo FS altogether and get the +2% HB which will give a total of +24% HB with all the AEQ and CEQ together, or lose out on that extra 3% HB but get 6 First Step for those 18 BT. It sounds like consensus is on the +3 HB, which makes sense to me- the only thing is with outside running as important as it is, I'd like to see him get there to the edge on a more consistent basis and i thought FS SA might accomplish that. He''ll have around 90 agility, mid 70 speed and 70 vision, and its too late to change any of that except by rearranging VAs. It may be that first step won't significantly help anyhow with his speed being low but I've never seen what it does with a player on the o-line.

The thought is good but the math is wrong. If you get a 3rd HB% piece, it will only get 25% of what you put into it (stacking penalties)... so your 21% would only make 22% at best for the investment.. not the 24%. I'd say TJ is pretty spot on... you'll get more bang for the BT if you go the SA route instead.

Sounds like spending 18 BT in AOI is the way to go. Two %HB is good enough.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
The thought is good but the math is wrong. If you get a 3rd HB% piece, it will only get 25% of what you put into it (stacking penalties)... so your 21% would only make 22% at best for the investment.. not the 24%. I'd say TJ is pretty spot on... you'll get more bang for the BT if you go the SA route instead.

I'm not following your math- if HB is already at 21%, and the 3rd piece counts for 1/4
then the 12% from CEQ will be worth 3%, making it 24% in total, right? To get 22% he'd need
a +4% 3rd piece, which i don't think is possible.

Originally posted by darncat
I'm not following your math- if HB is already at 21%, and the 3rd piece counts for 1/4
then the 12% from CEQ will be worth 3%, making it 24% in total, right? To get 22% he'd need
a +4% 3rd piece, which i don't think is possible.

Well, everything I've seen on my dots go as follows; (in accordance to the rules of the penalties of stacking)

AEQ piece #1 has a full 15% Hold Block @ 100% value (15%)

CEQ piece #2 has a full 12% Hold Block @ .50 value (6%)

So if he adds on another AEQ HB piece, of only 5% @ .25 value (1.25%)

So... total of only 22.25% That 1.25 is what he would gain from going the HB extra piece. It's a close thought but I think better uses for the +3 strength piece?

Also, here's a thought hadn't been put down here yet. To USE that 4th AEQ piece at substantially reduced value not only means a just limited effect on either the HB% or the SA of choice... but also the fact he doesn't have the BT's to add onto the Strength as well.... meaning it will stay only a +3 strength piece... as opposed to the +10 strength free EQ it's replacing. TBH, I think I'd sell the extra +3 strength AEQ piece and make it a 3 AEQ dot, then use those saved BT's for SP's or other good stuff. JMHO.

2 AEQ is 22.5%
2 AEQ + CE is 25.5%
3 AEQ is 26.25%

idk what the debate is. there is too much rambling in this thread.but those are the exact numbers since my declining dots have those #s and those pieces.

up to you if you think it is worth it.

i keep seeing 24% in these posts. idk where that number came from.

We're not on the Metric system down here.

Besides that, it depends on which pieces you get.

If you get a 2% or 3% instead of a +5%, it changes how they split.

He's talking about a 2% piece as a 3rd. Maxed out that would be 12% cut on half twice (fractions rule, decimals drool)

15% + 6% from CEQ + his 3% (from one quarter of the 12%) would get him to 24%... as an example.

It's an attainable target, and it'd keep him a step ahead of a defender with a pair of 15% pieces

Originally posted by ProfessionalKop
2 AEQ is 22.5%
2 AEQ + CE is 25.5%
3 AEQ is 26.25%

idk what the debate is. there is too much rambling in this thread.but those are the exact numbers since my declining dots have those #s and those pieces.

up to you if you think it is worth it.

Um... dude? His second piece is CEQ... not AEQ. He's contemplating getting a 4th AEQ in HB but has extremely limited BT's to work with... that's the debate.

If you have enough BTs to get a full piece. 100% go with HB% then. Where the fuck are the other two pieces

Originally posted by thermon
We're not on the Metric system down here.

Besides that, it depends on which pieces you get.

If you get a 2% or 3% instead of a +5%, it changes how they split.

He's talking about a 2% piece as a 3rd. Maxed out that would be 12% cut on half twice (fractions rule, decimals drool)

15% + 6% from CEQ + his 3% (from one quarter of the 12%) would get him to 24%... as an example.

It's an attainable target, and it'd keep him a step ahead of a defender with a pair of 15% pieces



^This. I thought it was pretty straight forward


Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
Well, everything I've seen on my dots go as follows; (in accordance to the rules of the penalties of stacking)

So if he adds on another AEQ HB piece, of only 5% @ .25 value (1.25%)



Why do you think only 5%? That would not be fully upgraded and would make zero sense. A +2% piece fully upgraded equals +12%. 1/4 of 12% is 3%, not 1.25%. So either 21% HB total and get 6 First Step or 24% and zero first step. This is the choice. He already has AOI and Pummel so there really is not a third option. Just these two and I'm trying to figure out how vital first step is compared to that extra 3%.

Cut Block if I’m remembering correctly also costs 18 BT’s and would be a good investment if you already have pummel (should have been pancake) and AOI.