Warrior General Games

Does anyone have a power WR on a non shit team that's useful in the receiving game? Or am I wasting my time building one?

Originally posted by Rocdog21
Does anyone have a power WR on a non shit team that's useful in the receiving game? Or am I wasting my time building one?

I've built several. Here's my latest project; (just lvl 54 here so... grain of salt.)

Attributes
Physical Attributes
Strength: 52.13
Speed: 127.5 (+34)
Agility: 75.13
Jumping: 30
Stamina: 22.5
Vision: 50.13
Confidence: 22.5

Football Skills
Blocking: 13 (+3)
Catching: 79.13
Tackling: 8
Throwing: 8
Carrying: 65.13
Kicking: 8
Punting: 8

Special Abilities
Possession Receiver Abilities
Route Running: 1
Sticky Hands: 1
Jumping Catch: 1
Diving Catch: 1
One Handed Catch: 1

Speedster Abilities
First Step: 0
Quick Cut: 0
Head Fake: 0
Spin: 0
Juke: 0

Additional Abilities
Brace for Impact: 0
Veteran Abilities
Mr. Reliable: 15
Possession Receiver: 10
Second Wind: 10

Current Bonuses/Penalties
Hold block chance: +13.5%

I haven't started addressing blocking yet but I will before long. I hope to end with somewhere around 70 strength and 60+ blocking with plenty of catching, carrying and the right SA's and VA's to help his receiving ability out. He won't be a 175+ speed kinda guy but should be fast and agile enough to get open. Jumping should end around 50 and I use Max height to help that out. I think I also went max weight as well to be better in the blocking.

Hmm...I'm leaning towards more strength. In fact I probably will stop applying SP's once he hits 68. Seems like I'm wasting my time...luckily he's in casual right now so I guess we will see how it goes

Originally posted by Rocdog21
Hmm...I'm leaning towards more strength. In fact I probably will stop applying SP's once he hits 68. Seems like I'm wasting my time...luckily he's in casual right now so I guess we will see how it goes

I use to think that way but then you gotta consider who he's likely to end up blocking against. The biggest would be a LB and they top out at around 260 pounds (thereabouts). Much more likely it'll be a CB or Safety who are much smaller. And the job they need to do is just to hold a block (occupy) on a defender long enough for the runner to slip past. Also, that runner is highly likely to be either a RQB or an EHB so, if built properly, is going to be faster than most defenders they're running against so you only need to hold the block for a few seconds then it doesn't matter anymore.

All that said, I'm not quite done with strength yet. If I hit 70 I'll feel fine. If I can push it a bit higher, awesome. One thing for sure, the WR has to finish with high Catching and Carrying (minimum of 85 in each, IMO and more would be much better) because if he can't make and hang onto the catch then he's not worth throwing the ball to.

I don't know if I've ever had 80+ carrying on any receiver outside a scat back. I'll see what happens. With him being in Casual for hopefully most, if not his whole career, I should be able to use him as kind of a test build and see what happens. Doubtful I'll ever build another one after this...Just was curious if they were semi useful in the passing game.

The problem is that there's barely enough SPs to do a good regular WR. If you try to add Strength to the equation, something has to give. Do you go less Speed, Catching, Agility...?

It's not hard to add some beef for blocking, but going for broken tackles would be nearly impossible.

Less speed for sure, probably less stamina. My player builder script doesn't work at my work or I'd have a couple ideas to mess around with.

I guess we will see. If this game is still around in a year, we can look back and see how shitty my build ends up

Originally posted by TJ Spikes
The problem is that there's barely enough SPs to do a good regular WR. If you try to add Strength to the equation, something has to give. Do you go less Speed, Catching, Agility...?

It's not hard to add some beef for blocking, but going for broken tackles would be nearly impossible.

Oh absolutely true. Trouble with most when building this type of dot is they cannot imagine not being great. To be more exact, they expect far too much from the dot. There's only two things this type of dot NEEDS to be able to do good enough to be quality. #1 is block long enough for the runner to get past (explained above). #2 is to catch the ball on those (somewhat rare) occasions when the QB throws it your way. The 'receiving' part of the build is much like a good ol' possession style TE. Tall with great hands but lacking in speed or break-tackle ability to be a HUGE passing threat. A security blanket for the QB if you like. If you're building to be a big threat in the passing game then this is NOT the way to do it.
I think Rocdog is looking for a decent dual purpose WR and all I can say is I've built several... made the early mistakes like going for way too much strength and blocking. Hell... you wanna have one of those, build a BTE and let the OC stick yer butt out in the WR slot. You won't catch a cold (or a pass) but you'll be a blocking machine. Basically this is a decent Possession-style WR that can block just good enough on those outside runs. And, it's a balance for the defense as well. Do you want to put in a 'run stop CB build' out there to counter the blocking and stop the outside run? Then you'd be vulnerable to any passes thrown that dots' way. Want to keep him from catching passes? Then you'll be vulnerable to his blocking ability.

As for your question, TJ, (and Roc) speed is the least important... but still important in the end. If you end up with less than 140 (with EQ and everything) then you'll just be too slow to be open enough to be worth throwing to. Agility needs to hit no lower than 75 and 80+ is preferred. Catching has to hit 80 or better and carrying has to hit 70+ otherwise he'll end up with a lot of 'KL's. Since strength will end up at 50+, match that with the carrying and those KL's will go away mostly. Besides... this dot isn't going to break tackles and go for giant chunks of yards... so he'll be getting tackled for sure and you want to avoid fumbles as well (after the catch). As you can see from the build above, I'm well on my way to hitting all the build goals listed here.

Theo,

Do you think 60+ blocking is necessary if you went higher strength? I have a dot on our team that did bring strength up1st and pretty high (will finish at 95 strength)

We talk about the build and target is much like you describe - help out blocking to get some long outside runs, and if he gets forgotten about in coverage (will end at 141 speed ) he can make the catches. He will obviously have a tough time getting open against decent man coverage.

My thought was that with 95 strength (already done, cant change it now), and 1 AEQ in HB% for 15% total, that against much weaker CB's he should be getting easy cakes with minimal blocking SP's. Agent will be training up blocking last in his build since it is not even a minor, but I was thinking 40 blocking with his 95 strength may be enough.

Any thoughts or experience in that range?

Catching is for suckers

Just do screen passes
http://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/player.pl?player_id=4717885

currently

- Doug Graves © (Lv. 37 WR)
Ht/Wt: 6'0", 235lbs

Experience, Skill Points, and Cash
Money: $0
Daily Salary: $712
Skill Points: 5
Training Points: 6
Bonus Tokens: 26
Veteran Points: 1
Next Level: 850/1000

Attributes
Physical Attributes
Strength: 77.24
Speed: 70.12 (+20)
Agility: 24.24
Jumping: 6
Stamina: 20.12
Vision: 20.24
Confidence: 20.12

Football Skills
Blocking: 50
Catching: 22.24
Tackling: 8
Throwing: 8
Carrying: 92.24
Kicking: 8
Punting: 8

Special Abilities
Possession Receiver Abilities
Route Running: 0
Sticky Hands: 0
Jumping Catch: 0
Diving Catch: 0
One Handed Catch: 0

Speedster Abilities
First Step: 0
Quick Cut: 0
Head Fake: 0
Spin: 0
Juke: 0

Additional Abilities
Power Through: 0
Veteran Abilities
Outside Blocker: 10

===

will become

Player Build
Position: wr_power_receiver
Season: 5
Day: 1
Boosts: 30
Level: 79
XP: 0
VA XP: 750
VA: 62
Bonus Tokens: 1080
Training Points: 0
SP: 0

Training Status:
strength : 1%
speed : 0%
agility : 3%
jumping : 0%
stamina : 6%
vision : 6%
confidence : 3%
blocking : 1%
throwing : 0%
catching : 15%
carrying : 0%
tackling : 0%
kicking : 0%
punting : 0%

Attributes:
strength : 89.38
speed : 85 (+52 = 138)
agility : 71.38
jumping : 6
stamina : 53
vision : 52.38
confidence : 52
blocking : 62
throwing : 8
catching : 31.38
carrying : 102.38 (+3 = 105)
tackling : 8
kicking : 8
punting : 8

Top SA Tree: | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Bottom SA Tree: | 4(9) | 2(3) | 4(5) | 8(9) | 0 |
Additional SA Tree: | 9 | Power Thru

Have most of the AEQ shopping done. 5% BT, 2% BT, 3% HB will do CEQ in 1st Step

VAs YAC Attack, Bruiser, SYM,

Training will need to be fine tuned a bit, I only need 950 more BTs

You don't really have that option in Casual to just spam screen passes...Not a bad idea though for regular leagues.


Sunder how often does "Power Through" fire so far? Does it work? Same ability I went with

Originally posted by sunder B
Theo,

Do you think 60+ blocking is necessary if you went higher strength? I have a dot on our team that did bring strength up1st and pretty high (will finish at 95 strength)

We talk about the build and target is much like you describe - help out blocking to get some long outside runs, and if he gets forgotten about in coverage (will end at 141 speed ) he can make the catches. He will obviously have a tough time getting open against decent man coverage.

My thought was that with 95 strength (already done, cant change it now), and 1 AEQ in HB% for 15% total, that against much weaker CB's he should be getting easy cakes with minimal blocking SP's. Agent will be training up blocking last in his build since it is not even a minor, but I was thinking 40 blocking with his 95 strength may be enough.

Any thoughts or experience in that range?

My first Power WR (outside blocker/possession receiver) looked awesome... but ended up a one trick pony. I don't remember the exact numbers but he had 80 strength and 70 blocking... naturally he also had not enough speed, agility, and carrying. If I remember, his catching was around 80 too. I think I had Strength, Blocking, and Catching as my fixed multi-training slots. Anyways, the guy could block just fine but was mostly worthless as a receiver. My subsequent attempts I kept pushing the carrying and speed and agility higher while lowering the strength and blocking. Besides... logically you don't want to go crazy with blocking anyways because it's a non-alg skill. In the end, I found that 60+ strength and around 50 blocking seems to work fine for outside blocking on most DB's and even can hold their own against LB's. Obviously, against a D-lineman you're in trouble.

------end-----------------

Roc, some all run teams in casual I've seen use the STOP archetype WR instead. It's double useful (also can play ST's) and blocking is an ALG skill. Most of the primary and secondary skills work fine and there's no OOP penalty. Can't catch a lick though.

i feel like i should start running some plays for my power WR- she's actually made some good catches in traffic
and looks to be getting open semi-often but hasn't had many targets.

i made her a bit different though, agility first, she will end with 97 agi and 142 speed w/ all AeQ into it
the strength is only 77, will be ~ 80 with VA, 85 catching as I really couldn't get it any higher.
Problem is i haven't touched block yet, its the last att i will train and SP i'll spend (for 7th season),
so i'll be lucky to get it to 40. Still, I have noticed the HB% piece has helped her blocking a lot, even
with no block att to speak of, so maybe she will even get some pancakes like she used to on coverage CBs
with just that amount of block- but we'll have to see. My focus is not on pancakes anyhow, as we have really
speedy agile ball-carriers so if she can just hold the block long enough for them to get past, its just as good...

Originally posted by darncat
i feel like i should start running some plays for my power WR- she's actually made some good catches in traffic
and looks to be getting open semi-often but hasn't had many targets.

i made her a bit different though, agility first, she will end with 97 agi and 142 speed w/ all AeQ into it
the strength is only 77, will be ~ 80 with VA, 85 catching as I really couldn't get it any higher.
Problem is i haven't touched block yet, its the last att i will train and SP i'll spend (for 7th season),
so i'll be lucky to get it to 40. Still, I have noticed the HB% piece has helped her blocking a lot, even
with no block att to speak of, so maybe she will even get some pancakes like she used to on coverage CBs
with just that amount of block- but we'll have to see. My focus is not on pancakes anyhow, as we have really
speedy agile ball-carriers so if she can just hold the block long enough for them to get past, its just as good...

The thing about 'block' is this. Learned this when doing ST's. It seems that any player can 'block' even if it has a super minimal number like 6 or 8. How effective it is and how long it can HOLD a block depends on ti's skill level and the abilities of it's counterpart (the dot being blocked). In ST's I noticed pretty quick that my best 'blockers' really needed to be put in certain spots and that other 'strong' dots with a lot less blocking could still do very good as blockers in those 'other' places where they're were least likely to encounter a highly skilled (and strong) 'block breaker' type of defender.
This is important because in the hierarchy of the defense, the LB's and D-line are your best 'block breakers' with the most mass, strength, and other skills. Sure, there are a lot of DB's out there built to work well against those outside runs... they gotta since it's getting spammed a lot... but the best they can do is still not nearly as good as the non-DB's. First of all they can only be built so big (weight being the key here)... and secondly because if they were to be built 100% against the run and run blockers then they'd be absolutely worthless against the pass. So, in the end, not having a boatload of blocking skill is not a horrible thing.

As for targets, you're not going to get many no matter what. As good as you can build a Possession (style) WR, they'll never get the targets that the Speed arches do simply because they don't 'appear open' nearly as often. However, when those speed arches are covered and the QB gets desperate, it's the Possession WR (or TE) that they'll target when they're under duress from the defense/defender(s). That's when you gotta make the catch. When double covered. When not quite open. And, to do that, you gotta be taller and jump higher and be strong enough with enough carrying to avoid KL's. You won't get much YAC but then, you job is to simply catch the ball... and block when you need to.