Warrior General Games

Is there any benefit to make a Power Based Pass rusher? Think a Calais Campbell type who can take on double teams with stunts and gradually collapse the pocket.

Oh man... it's my favorite way to build a DT.

Using the Combo archetype (reason is no penalties to needed SA's) go with max height and lightest weight. Pick up Aoi as one of your extra SA's... later get Relentless Pursuit and Tunnel Vision. You're wanting an end (skills) somewhere around ;

90(+) strength, 90 speed, 90 agility, 90(+) tackling, 60+ vision, 60(+) jumping, 60 stamina and 40 (at least) confidence.
Hope to finish with 2x BB pieces and 1 Shed Blocks piece and 1 MT piece if doing 4 AEQ. Would love to end with 10 in Aoi, 10 in Relentless Pursuit, 10 in Tunnel Vision, 6 in Shed Blocks, and 10 in Break Through (whatever left in Wall). Impossible to do if you don't have the AEQ Shed Block piece because it takes too much BT's to do it through the tree.

Is that why you've only gone 90 strength as you want all those SA's?

Strength and agility should be closer to 100. Not a big fan of 60+ jumping. 40 confidence if you want OTK.

I was thinking a DE not a DT with strength closer to 100 and agility and speed at 85 with the ability to bat passes at the line.

Originally posted by Sonic
Is that why you've only gone 90 strength as you want all those SA's?

First of all, I posted minimum numbers to hit (hence the [+]'s after) and, yeah, with this idea for a build you really want those SA's to pop otherwise you would stay with a Run Stuff design that could occasionally pressure the QB. I've built several of those... they're solid in the run game but limited in effecting the pass.

Originally posted by TJC
Strength and agility should be closer to 100. Not a big fan of 60+ jumping. 40 confidence if you want OTK.

Being the build is primarily a pass rusher that isn't worthless against the run, the jumping is both for diving tackles and swatting down passes when he can't get to the QB (reason for the max height also). I'd love to hit 100 on strength, speed, and agility but then you can't get all the SA's listed up to their top number (see answer above). If you wanted more strength and agility you could drop Relentless Pursuit since it doesn't fire in the first 2 seconds. That'd give you maybe enough SP's to push things higher in those two skills.

Originally posted by JB99
I was thinking a DE not a DT with strength closer to 100 and agility and speed at 85 with the ability to bat passes at the line.

With a DE, IMO, a strength based build is a bit of a waste. The De starts farther out from the middle and the best one's I've seen rely on high speed and agility with decent strength to help out... but counting on that speed and agility to just blast by the O-lineman in the blink of an eye, crushing the QB. If you wanted to try a strength based then just build a standard pas rush DE with speed and strength swapped out and all EQ into strength.

Fwiw... IMO... Every D-lineman should be a power pass rusher. Having an entire D-line that doesn't get knocked around in the run game is a huge plus. Granted, sack numbers will be low, but Hurries are an important part of the game too. 110ish Strength is a worthy goal.

But does that leave him too slow to effectively rush the passer? Is 70 speed and agility too slow?

Originally posted by JB99
But does that leave him too slow to effectively rush the passer? Is 70 speed and agility too slow?

I'm gonna totally recant my earlier take on the DE. Just saw a game where one of those super Speed and Agility guys got his butt pancaked 22 times. I'm not saying a well built speed and agility DE isn't effective or can't be a force but, after thinking all day yesterday it got me thinking as follows; Most teams have 2 types of HB's (elusive and power)... two types of QB's (throwing and rushing)... even some O-lines have pass blocking Tackles to guard against those pass rushing DE's from the blind side... so why not have two types of Pass Rushing DE's to combat that? If I take JB99's idea a step further I'd say you could build it like this;

100(+) strength, 90+ speed, 80+ agility (you could go lower but not by much because it's not needed as much because you wanna crush your opponent and bullet to the QB for the sack.. hence the reason for the higher speed), 90+ tackling, 60+ vision, 48-60 jumping, 60 stamina, and 40 confidence (for OTK if wanted). I would still go with the Combo arch and max height (for leverage)... maybe even max weight too for that extra 'push'. Also get Break Through and AOI as your extra SA's. Try to finish with 10 in each of those as well as 10 in Shed Block and Tunnel Vision. AEQ in Break Block x2 and Make Tackle (also Make Tackle in the CEQ as well). Likely go with the pass rusher tree in the CEQ. If you have enough SP's try to push Strong base up as far as you can.

If you paired this style DE with the more conventional pass rush DE then you'd have one helluva 1-2 punch on the right side of the D-line against those pass blocking LT's. A matchup nightmare.

The problem is, with DEs you cannot control when they are in the game - no matter who the QB or RB is. The best you can do is "force starters" on 3rd down & put your best pass rusher as the starter hoping at least he'll do the most damage against the pass & be less likely exposed vs the run.

IMO pass rushing DEs are really nice through the pros but once you hit WL they become a liability.

Originally posted by SeattleNiner
The problem is, with DEs you cannot control when they are in the game - no matter who the QB or RB is. The best you can do is "force starters" on 3rd down & put your best pass rusher as the starter hoping at least he'll do the most damage against the pass & be less likely exposed vs the run.

IMO pass rushing DEs are really nice through the pros but once you hit WL they become a liability.

That's ok really because neither can the offense change out their LT. If they're using Pass Block archetype LT's, then the Pass Rush DE will have to work hard (considering all builds being of both equal and good or better quality) to break through and pressure/sack the QB... however, if the Power Rush build is on the field instead, then those same Pass Block LT's will struggle against the much stronger bull-rushing style DE. That works in reverse as well. A Run Block build LT will handle the power DE but struggle against the Pass Rush DE. Since, as an OC, you usually either have to go with one or the other and not have both available to you then at least half the time you could be at a disadvantage when passing.

Theo, the reverse to your last post can be made as that's the mirror if what you posted. Also, pro doesn't have as much game planning as WL.

Which archetype should I go with?

Originally posted by JB99
Which archetype should I go with?

Depends on two things. #1, do you want Strength as a primary skill and #2, which SA's are you planing to push. If you take the Run Stuff archetype then, I think, Tunnel Vision is a penalized SA. If you take Pass Rush archetype then Strength is a minor. If you go Combo archetype then Strength is a major and there's no penalized SA's (also no 'favored' ones either).