Warrior General Games

Originally posted by SeattleNiner
You are supposed to be able to force a RQB run by having him target player not on the field. Like target WR1 then WR5 WR5 WR5 WR5. I messed with it a bit way back in the day but it never amounted to anything that great - D's are still looking to stop him from running so having him delay the run a bit is not really a help.

Truth. In fact, the only way to get it to work like the OP is wanting is to make SURE it's a passing down/situation. If it's played as a run then the delay works against you... but you might be able to complete a pass if they're not expecting one. Maybe. If it's played as a pass, then you might find a bit of running room to play with. Maybe. If the DC is smart and puts a spy (or two) on you and blankets the short area in a nice thick zone you might be able to complete a bomb over their heads. Maybe. But I doubt it.

Originally posted by Rocdog21
What's his scramble frequency set at?

Often.

Originally posted by TJ Spikes
This is the biggest problem with the concept. There's no logic. It's impossible to 'force' your QB to run. On top of that, If the QB is mobile, he'll always be dancing around when he throws, (which shoots pass quality all to hell) even when he doesn't need to.


Yea, he's operating with a penalty for sure until I start putting points into the "on the run" SA.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
I can tell you this from my limited experience (meaning I've done OC and DC and scouting on RQB's but have never built one myself). When you consider most RQB's put some effort into Strength... and they get some boost to their passing even if they never put a single SP into it, then just trying to pass with a 'stock' RQB (meaning almost everything done was built to be a runner only) is possible. Screens for sure. After Screens, you want plays with 5 yard (or less) routes... the more the merrier (to a point [see below]). Non-short routes can be targeted but you want them to be the very 1st ones in the progressions then likely never looked at again. The more SP's you can slip into passing, the better the chances at completing one becomes but just as much tied to the success rate is the distance of the pass and the catching ability of the receivers. Basically, treat the QB as if he's got a bad case of Nearsightedness (I hope I got that right) and that trying to throw to anything beyond 5 yards away is ludicrous as it's likely to go anywhere but the target.

Avoid anything longer than 5 yards and you should be mostly ok. Scramble should be high as well (making the QB tuck and run as you want him to). Also, limit the # of receivers in the progressions as much as possible. If you want the QB to 'tuck and run' then consider that as part of the progression process. Example; TE-HB-run. TJ is mostly right... you cannot 'force' the QB to run when you'd like him to... but you can set things up so it happens sooner and more frequently.

Screens are stopped the same way as sweeps and short passing keeps the defense close to the LOS and therefore more tacklers to shut down a run. Get em down field and the QB has less to deal with. In the 5WR, you get 5 down field on a long pass, two more to cover the sweep, leaving only 4 to stuff the run and/or rush the passer. That's the best odds one can hope for.

Originally posted by SeattleNiner
You are supposed to be able to force a RQB run by having him target player not on the field. Like target WR1 then WR5 WR5 WR5 WR5. I messed with it a bit way back in the day but it never amounted to anything that great - D's are still looking to stop him from running so having him delay the run a bit is not really a help.

I'm trying low vision in hopes he loses confidence in a pass attempt and tucks it. Of course, without seeing the code and no longer any chats with Bort, no way to know for sure if it will work.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
Truth. In fact, the only way to get it to work like the OP is wanting is to make SURE it's a passing down/situation. If it's played as a run then the delay works against you... but you might be able to complete a pass if they're not expecting one. Maybe. If it's played as a pass, then you might find a bit of running room to play with. Maybe. If the DC is smart and puts a spy (or two) on you and blankets the short area in a nice thick zone you might be able to complete a bomb over their heads. Maybe. But I doubt it.

From today's game, against a quality opponent http://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2935109&pbp_id=449203. Looks like the D was made to oppose what he does. Be nice to see such without all the penalties my QB is suffering on this play and with real Dots instead of CPU slugs.

Originally posted by Dr. E
Screens are stopped the same way as sweeps and short passing keeps the defense close to the LOS and therefore more tacklers to shut down a run. Get em down field and the QB has less to deal with. In the 5WR, you get 5 down field on a long pass, two more to cover the sweep, leaving only 4 to stuff the run and/or rush the passer. That's the best odds one can hope for.

Again, a lot depends on Down & Distance, Score & time, and the DC you're up against. You can pretty much take advantage of CPU teams knowing they'll play 'stock' defenses and AI's. All you have to do is have a zig play in place when they'll have a zag defense. Against a Human DC and/or Team, all bets are off. Maybe they'll play man coverage against a 5-wide and honor the possibility of a deep pass or the likelihood of it being completed... or maybe not. TBH, I always wondered that anytime (as a DC that I see) a RQB is on the field, why not just send everyone from all angles, inside and out? It's a pretty sure bet he's not gonna pass and, even if he does, if you get any pressure on him at all before the throw he's likely to miss a deep target by a wide margin. All or nothing, ya know? However, makes more sense to send a few blitzers to 'hurry things up a bit' and simply play everyone else in a wide, thick, choking zone within 5 yards of the LOS and wait for the inevitable.

I'm currently trying a few things to force defenses to 'honor the pass' whenever our RQB is in... then, if they don't, I hope to burn their reticent asses and make them re-think things. Otherwise, it should be pretty easy to set a defense up against a RQB whenever he's in the game. I suspect you're somewhat attempting to accomplish the same result but from the 'builder's approach' instead... almost making a true 'dual threat' QB (which is somewhat impossible.... sorry but real Elways, Tarkingtons, Cunninghams, Vicks, Wilsons, and Cam Newtons aren't possible in GLB land). I'd still build a RQB as a pure 'Runner' as much as possible... just sneak a few extra SP's and/or training's away on Passing to give you a slightly better % of completing passes, especially deeper ones that defenses won't/don't respect when your RQB is in the game.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
Again, a lot depends on Down & Distance, Score & time, and the DC you're up against. You can pretty much take advantage of CPU teams knowing they'll play 'stock' defenses and AI's. All you have to do is have a zig play in place when they'll have a zag defense. Against a Human DC and/or Team, all bets are off. Maybe they'll play man coverage against a 5-wide and honor the possibility of a deep pass or the likelihood of it being completed... or maybe not. TBH, I always wondered that anytime (as a DC that I see) a RQB is on the field, why not just send everyone from all angles, inside and out? It's a pretty sure bet he's not gonna pass and, even if he does, if you get any pressure on him at all before the throw he's likely to miss a deep target by a wide margin. All or nothing, ya know? However, makes more sense to send a few blitzers to 'hurry things up a bit' and simply play everyone else in a wide, thick, choking zone within 5 yards of the LOS and wait for the inevitable.

I'm currently trying a few things to force defenses to 'honor the pass' whenever our RQB is in... then, if they don't, I hope to burn their reticent asses and make them re-think things. Otherwise, it should be pretty easy to set a defense up against a RQB whenever he's in the game. I suspect you're somewhat attempting to accomplish the same result but from the 'builder's approach' instead... almost making a true 'dual threat' QB (which is somewhat impossible.... sorry but real Elways, Tarkingtons, Cunninghams, Vicks, Wilsons, and Cam Newtons aren't possible in GLB land). I'd still build a RQB as a pure 'Runner' as much as possible... just sneak a few extra SP's and/or training's away on Passing to give you a slightly better % of completing passes, especially deeper ones that defenses won't/don't respect when your RQB is in the game.

Yes. That's what it's all about, making the DC respect the QB and not go hog wild against the run.

Cunts

Originally posted by Ubasstards
Cunts

LOL
Cobra Kai butthurt!

Originally posted by SeattleNiner
You are supposed to be able to force a RQB run by having him target player not on the field. Like target WR1 then WR5 WR5 WR5 WR5. I messed with it a bit way back in the day but it never amounted to anything that great - D's are still looking to stop him from running so having him delay the run a bit is not really a help.

I wonder what happens if you have the QB target no one who is on the field at all

i will say, though i am a practitioner of the whole 'dual-threat' QB thing
i'm not a fan of the QB running from pass plays on GLB for the most part
because they tend to not do a great job of deciding what to do. it can turn into a big play
but it seems more often then not the QB will miss someone wide open when they do this
and they would've been better to have just thrown the damn ball instead of trying to make
something out of nothing and usually ending up with nothing. honestly, the best scrambling for
my current QB has been when she starts to run toward the LOS and a LB hedges toward her
allowing her to hit the open guy they are covering. I'm assuming having higher vision will help
the QB 'know' when to run out of the pocket and do it better, but if your vision is that high,
you probably want to give him a chance to see his reads... I go with 'sometimes' for both scramble
and run, and the result is that she tries to evade pressure but rarely pulls it down and runs, usually
finding a throw to attempt, and i'm good with that as she rarely does anything good running on passes.
i wonder what the result would be of turning scramble to "often"- as it is she always scrambles-
i don't know how more often it could get

Originally posted by Dr. E
From today's game, against a quality opponent http://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2935109&pbp_id=449203. Looks like the D was made to oppose what he does. Be nice to see such without all the penalties my QB is suffering on this play and with real Dots instead of CPU slugs.

Yeah, you need to get some real dots on your team-
its gonna be impossible to see what yr QB can do and what he needs to be able to do w/ all CPUs around him

Personally, 5WR is my least favorite formation for scrambling QBs:
you have to remember that the biggest advantage to the QB run is having 10 guys blocking for the most agile player.
5WR w/out any RBs or TEs leaves no one in position to block in the outside running game. far better I think are
the trips forms, Big I, single back big. regular single back, any 2WR besides I, and even the spread is far better IMO
these formations all give your QB options for protection on the outside run, as well as options in the passing game

Don't be so quick to say a micheal vick can't be built in GLB, Theo- i'm on the way there (hopefully )

Too much vision hurts running attempts by the QB, IMO. They tend to dance around at the line far too long! But like darncat stated, it helps to pull in the defense and create space for receivers. With that said, however; the dancing also lessens the quality of the pass, if the throw is attempted.

Originally posted by F00tballJunkie
Too much vision hurts running attempts by the QB, IMO. They tend to dance around at the line far too long! But like darncat stated, it helps to pull in the defense and create space for receivers. With that said, however; the dancing also lessens the quality of the pass, if the throw is attempted.

Not sure how much 'throw on the run/move' helps with that but it should.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
Not sure how much 'throw on the run/move' helps with that but it should.

I am sure it gives it a bump, no doubt. But I think it is a bonus to Throwing, not sure if Throwing = Pass quality. If Throwing was all that was needed then the Pass quality SA's and EQ wouldn't be necessary, and they are. IMHO.