Warrior General Games

Originally posted by reddogrw
peewee isn't even the same game played at higher levels - Bort buffs passing at lower levels

The buff is merely a % buff to attributes, if I recall correctly, so in fact if anything its a better picture of the end game than peewee typically would be.

That being said, I stand by my logic without the living example.

Originally posted by DiMo28
I'm tired to people pointing to Catch's study. He didn't run enough tests to make it a definitive study.

iI think It was tested to the same extent everything out here...

Originally posted by Sly
Many of my dots have a really high EL but that's not my goal.

I'm with Sly here.
EL is pure SP math.
Pure SP math doesn't tell how Your player will perform. Different goals, different builds, different tactics, ...

Originally posted by mangoolio
Originally posted by Sly

Many of my dots have a really high EL but that's not my goal.

I'm with Sly here.
EL is pure SP math.
Pure SP math doesn't tell how Your player will perform. Different goals, different builds, different tactics, ...




as long as you build 2 dots towards the same end goal, the better builder will have a higher EL

higher EL builds can suck (like an OL with higher vision and confidence since they are majors as an example) but if you have a target of where you want attributes to end up the better builder will have better attributes

Originally posted by reddogrw
as long as you build 2 dots towards the same end goal, the better builder will have a higher EL

higher EL builds can suck (like an OL with higher vision and confidence since they are majors as an example) but if you have a target of where you want attributes to end up the better builder will have better attributes

Exactly. As long as You aim at the same exact build, they will have exactly the same attributes & therefore EL
Math.

Then comes the differences.
And things like are You building for lvl 79 only.

Originally posted by Sly
I have some working theories that I am still evolving. What I am thinking is that there are alternate build approaches that give more value than that extra AEQ. It is looking that way. And not only for QB but for some other positions as well with similar herd mentality builds. It starts by understanding what is really true and what is just perception / group think. Basically, eliminate the things that seem to be just group think and consider if there might be better alternatives. But I'm always reevaluating. Even with my current builds that recently hit lvl79 I have some things that look like real breakthroughs and other things that were an interesting idea but I wouldn't do them the same way next time.

But while there are some things I'm happy to talk about - for instance fundamentals and commonly held beliefs and whether these beliefs are really true and provable or not - there are other things I'm not so ready to share, and giving you a build guide isn't on my list of things I'm planning to share. You have a really good build already. There are a few things I would do a little differently, though.

Sly,

You have been talking a lot lately, but you're not actually saying anything. I gave you an opportunity to make a contribution to the general population by asking what you would change about my QB, and you replied with these vague remarks. I neither want nor need a build guide from you, as I have already published my own build guides for the general population to use. I receive PMs on a regular basis, thanking me for publishing them. Are those the build methods that I use? No. I have shared my personal methods with a couple of people and they have all responded with, "how the fuck am I supposed to follow that?" You have alluded to poor math skills on several occasions, as the culprit for people's lack of success when it comes to building dots. I scored an 800 on the math section of the SAT when I was taking it for the Duke TIP program when I was 12, and I have an engineering degree from Georgia Tech. My math skills are better than most, but I don't lord it over everyone in these forums. I try to help others, because at this stage of the game, hoarding information will only make this game die faster. If you think you have some revolutionary information, I'm willing to bet money that you're not the only one to think of it. So, while you are holding on to your theories, I'm going to tell everyone my take on what to do better next time around on my QB:

The 167 throwing is bad ass, and I think it made a huge impact on the fact that this dot had very few bad passes, considering the number of throws he made. 98 vision was a good mark, although I might try to get 100 next time around. His strength was a bit high, as it made very little impact on deep passes. I would likely try to bring confidence up to mid 80s, and strength down a bit. I would probably sacrifice a couple of points in agility to get speed up to 50. I wouldn't waste my time on any SAs other than the first 3 in the top tree. Based on all of these things, I would build a PP AT instead of a DP AT. I will definitely go for 4 AEQ again, and I might even quadruple stack % pass quality.

I use a method very similar to advanced guide version 2 - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fwZX6NvaZ1oScZZRzyvs4NOuCGRsnMYwzIkvFxD82BY/edit?usp=sharing

Originally posted by Dave Mr Majors
Sly,

You have been talking a lot lately, but you're not actually saying anything. I gave you an opportunity to make a contribution to the general population by asking what you would change about my QB, and you replied with these vague remarks. I neither want nor need a build guide from you, as I have already published my own build guides for the general population to use. I receive PMs on a regular basis, thanking me for publishing them. Are those the build methods that I use? No. I have shared my personal methods with a couple of people and they have all responded with, "how the fuck am I supposed to follow that?" You have alluded to poor math skills on several occasions, as the culprit for people's lack of success when it comes to building dots. I scored an 800 on the math section of the SAT when I was taking it for the Duke TIP program when I was 12, and I have an engineering degree from Georgia Tech. My math skills are better than most, but I don't lord it over everyone in these forums. I try to help others, because at this stage of the game, hoarding information will only make this game die faster. If you think you have some revolutionary information, I'm willing to bet money that you're not the only one to think of it. So, while you are holding on to your theories, I'm going to tell everyone my take on what to do better next time around on my QB:

The 167 throwing is bad ass, and I think it made a huge impact on the fact that this dot had very few bad passes, considering the number of throws he made. 98 vision was a good mark, although I might try to get 100 next time around. His strength was a bit high, as it made very little impact on deep passes. I would likely try to bring confidence up to mid 80s, and strength down a bit. I would probably sacrifice a couple of points in agility to get speed up to 50. I wouldn't waste my time on any SAs other than the first 3 in the top tree. Based on all of these things, I would build a PP AT instead of a DP AT. I will definitely go for 4 AEQ again, and I might even quadruple stack % pass quality.

I use a method very similar to advanced guide version 2 - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fwZX6NvaZ1oScZZRzyvs4NOuCGRsnMYwzIkvFxD82BY/edit?usp=sharing

My contribution that I'm willing to make to this thread is to clarify that my own experience and evidence from Bort indicates that confidence has an impact on pass quality beyond the generally accepted impact on reducing hurries.

I'm not interested in what else you think I should be providing. Get over it.

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
IMHO: Throwing > Vision > Confidence > Strength.I've found anecdotally that high confidence QB's throw less picks than high strength QB's.

Nah, i had high confidence QBs that threw pics, especially in blitzing situations. Thats why i like the spd/agi ration being good enough to counter pressure situations

IMHO: Throwing > Vision > Strength > Spd/Agi Ratio > Confidence.


Originally posted by Dave Mr Majors
http://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/player.pl?player_id=4410897

Triple stacked %pass quality is a must if you want your QB to play in WL.

Not a must have, but big advantage imo.
PQ>PD
PQ at least 20+%, having a PQ/PD ratio of 20+%/20-22,5%
My personal opinion, i like confidence in the area of 65-75, if you like higher confidence, you can invest in couple VAs to receive a confidence push.

http://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/player.pl?player_id=4600727 (85 conf)
http://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2484021&playoffs=0 (75 conf) (experimental build from an old friend)
http://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/player.pl?player_id=4600727&playoffs=1 (67 conf) one of my favorite QBs I OCed, led WL in passing statistics for 3 straight WL seasons s53-s55 including a WL title)
http://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/player.pl?player_id=4618580 (81 conf, current QB, leads WL for 2 straight WL seasons now)

Overall, it all depends on the weapons and scheme (OC) the team runs, combined with right VA setup and tactics. The VA setup of the O scheme is the key component here.

Most of the posting in this thread has been from Sly (terrible builder) and Stoned Beaver (only plays peewee).

Just skim the thread for TJ, reddog, and Dave's posts and that's all the information you need. Tomcic's post above mine has some good information too. Dave's QB that he posted is perhaps the most efficiently built QB I have ever seen.

Here is the build for my QB on one of the few 100% pass teams in the game http://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/player.pl?player_id=4620497 reddog's team just beat him in the Casual Pro championship and I have no problem opening the build because it looks pretty much just like he would expect it to.

QB is not a build with a whole lot up for debate due to how it is used on the field and how so many of the better builders have experienced the same results. As a general rule confidence can be in the range 65-85 and maybe 5 beyond that for a particularly efficient build. Below 60/65 and performance starts to become noticeably worse, above 85/90 and you've begun to use too many build resources on confidence, damaging the rest of the build.

I have personally built QBs with 60, 64, 70, 72, 75, 77 and 82 confidence. Some on all passing teams some not, all through end build and most with multiple golds. My experience is the same as most, which is that 70-77 or so is the sweet spot, but it's not a dramatic difference either way. The QB's build is ultimately a very small percentage of the passing game, and this is a very small percentage of the QB's build. I have won RPE on a 100% passing team using a day 760 QB.

edit - tomcic said to not post super secret VA stuff and how we manipulate them to put our QB confidence into donkey's confidence sweet spot range for the playoffs

You like HOAC? I've literally never heard anyone say they like it. It seems like it would be great, but it never seems to work out that way. I remember years ago arguing with bhall when he said that and then I went and tried it a few times and had the same experience.

This...

Most of the posting in this thread has been from Sly (terrible builder) and Stoned Beaver (only plays peewee)

Originally posted by Donk3yMan
You like HOAC? I've literally never heard anyone say they like it. It seems like it would be great, but it never seems to work out that way. I remember years ago arguing with bhall when he said that and then I went and tried it a few times and had the same experience.

If you are already in the 70's with confidence it probably doesn't help

In lower it should bump you some

Yeah I tried it out on the 60 and 64 conf QBs a few times each and could never seem to discern any noticeable increase in performance between playoffs and RS, bhall and others said the same but this was some number of years ago.

I wouldn't be too surprised to hear you guys or others have had success with it though.

Trick Pwny has a younger QB that I use for the playoffs now. I've had him use it a few times and couldn't tell a difference either, but his confidence is already 75