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jdpbernal
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How much jumping does a speed or possession WR need to trigger the Diving Catch, Jump Catch and 1 Hand Catch? Let's say that each one of those SA's mentioned have 4 points in them.
 
buckets99
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oc tbh
 
TJ Spikes
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10

Jumping or Diving for a catch is harder than a regular catch, so whatever you add in the relevant SA adds a bonus to the roll.

More Jumping will increase your radius, and also increase your chances of catching a diving/jumping catch before the SA is applied.

1HC is a different beast.

The more you invest in the SA the better chance it has of firing off. It's basically like 1st Step, except that the condition is ultra rare (an "out of range" pass--whatever that means). In theory, less jumping might better because it could lead to more out of range passes...

Fwiw, I can't remember anyone ever saying this SA was worth investing in, or that they had good results with it

Edited by TJ Spikes on Oct 7, 2016 18:55:24
 
jdpbernal
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Originally posted by TJ Spikes
10

Jumping or Diving for a catch is harder than a regular catch, so whatever you add in the relevant SA adds a bonus to the roll.

More Jumping will increase your radius, and also increase your chances of catching a diving/jumping catch before the SA is applied.

1HC is a different beast.


Only 10 Jumping? So, 68 on Jumping is an overkill?
 
TJ Spikes
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Originally posted by jdpbernal
Only 10 Jumping? So, 68 on Jumping is an overkill?


Relative to the SAs, yes. In general no

Imo, if you're doing the Possession archetype, the dot better be a Jumping maniac, otherwise you should have done a possession style dot from the Speedster archetype. The loss of the major in Speed and going from green to red in 1st Step is a pretty high price to pay.



Edited by TJ Spikes on Oct 7, 2016 19:07:46
Edited by TJ Spikes on Oct 7, 2016 19:06:50
 
jdpbernal
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Ok got it, my WR will have

strength : 31
speed : 102.38
agility : 81.38
jumping : 68
stamina : 61
vision : 68.38
confidence : 31.38
blocking : 6
catching : 90.38
carrying : 50

Top SA Tree: | 1 | 2 | 4 | 4 | 4 |
Bottom SA Tree: | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 |
Additional SA Tree: | 6 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |

25.5% Catch Ball chance and 15% Fake chance

Is that a decent build?
 
jdpbernal
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Forgot to add..... speed is 102 (raw) + 55 with equipment
 
TJ Spikes
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Originally posted by jdpbernal
Ok got it, my WR will have

strength : 31
speed : 102.38
agility : 81.38
jumping : 68
stamina : 61
vision : 68.38
confidence : 31.38
blocking : 6
catching : 90.38
carrying : 50

Top SA Tree: | 1 | 2 | 4 | 4 | 4 |
Bottom SA Tree: | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 |
Additional SA Tree: | 6 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |

25.5% Catch Ball chance and 15% Fake chance

Is that a decent build?


I see that Harrison and Carter are both Speedster builds...

Given that, I'd ignore the top tree, and score as much 1st Step and Juke, maybe 8+, with any left overs going to more Catch Fake (I assume your is bonus SA?)
 
Theo Wizzago
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Originally posted by jdpbernal
Forgot to add..... speed is 102 (raw) + 55 with equipment


One thing not said yet in full is that, if you're building a POSSESSION type receiver, the ability to make the catch is the single most important thing. Having 102 speed (natural) vs having 95 speed (natural) means nothing in the end. Instead, shoot for a 'final speed number' (including equipment) of 140-150 (IMO). Just enough speed to get a little daylight on route cuts. Unless it's a PURE speed build, you're not going to be able to outrun the world making it simply not worthwhile to push it (speed) real high. Instead shoot for 'high enough'. The SP's and training you save should be thrown into the receiver's ability to 'make the catch no matter what'. In that regard jumping, catching, and carrying become highly important... more so than Speed.
 
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Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
One thing not said yet in full is that, if you're building a POSSESSION type receiver, the ability to make the catch is the single most important thing. Having 102 speed (natural) vs having 95 speed (natural) means nothing in the end. Instead, shoot for a 'final speed number' (including equipment) of 140-150 (IMO). Just enough speed to get a little daylight on route cuts. Unless it's a PURE speed build, you're not going to be able to outrun the world making it simply not worthwhile to push it (speed) real high. Instead shoot for 'high enough'. The SP's and training you save should be thrown into the receiver's ability to 'make the catch no matter what'. In that regard jumping, catching, and carrying become highly important... more so than Speed.


157 speed is enough (with the right "get open" SAs) to make the dot viable.
 
Gambler75
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Originally posted by jdpbernal
Ok got it, my WR will have

strength : 31
speed : 102.38
agility : 81.38
jumping : 68
stamina : 61
vision : 68.38
confidence : 31.38
blocking : 6
catching : 90.38
carrying : 50

Top SA Tree: | 1 | 2 | 4 | 4 | 4 |
Bottom SA Tree: | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 |
Additional SA Tree: | 6 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |

25.5% Catch Ball chance and 15% Fake chance

Is that a decent build?


If it is a speedster archetype, I'd skip the top tree as TJ suggested - though I would probably veer the other direction on the fakes, trying to get as much catch fake and first step as possible, then toss whatever is leftover at quick cut. With his agility, the quick cut should be decent value as I'm betting he's losing a lot of velocity on any patterns with sharp cuts, or if he tries using creative route running.

Raising Juke high enough is going to be expensive as an end of tree skill, and also require some wasteful points in Spin, and doesn't sound like you've got a lot of points leftover for SAs at this point. And avoiding that should free up VA points as Quick Feet can be skipped.

I'm not saying skipping Juke is a great idea in general, but short on SA points in the build, I'd rather see one of the two main fake skills at ~10, then two of them too low to be effective.
Edited by Gambler75 on Oct 8, 2016 00:27:39
 
jdpbernal
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Thanks for all the input here!
I'll add you guys on my team to give me some input on my dots.... QB, WR, HB, LB, RTE and pass rush DT.
 
keysor1
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130 agiliy
 
keysor1
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97 vision
 
keysor1
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29 speed and cnaching
 
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