Warrior General Games

Catch Fake testing:

Testing

Run 5 test games, all passing, noting all receivers that have any points in Catch Fake. Report the following:

URL of player
# of points in catch fakes
# of plays this player ran a route
# of times catch fake fired for this player

Need to do this for all receivers who have points in Catch Fake. Try and pick a team that has a minimum of 5 players with points in Catch Fake


**Note - Team 1 CB's all using 15%+ Avoid Fake


Games

Game 1: Double Man Defense (No pressure, more time to fake)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6040

Game 2: Double Man Defense (No Pressure, more time to fake)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6043

Game 3: Blitzing Defense (1 man blitz, some pressure plus zone)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6044

Game 4: Blitzing Defense (1 man blitz, some pressure plus zone)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6041

Game 5: Blitzing Defense (1 man blitz, some pressure plus zone)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6092



Results

Team 1
Speedster WR Two - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=42721
10 Catch Fake
Game 1 - 104 plays ~ 40 CF
Game 2 - 113 plays ~ 50 CF
Game 3 - 108 plays ~ 21 CF
Game 4 - 105 plays ~ 13 CF
Game 5 - 106 plays ~ 14 CF

26% of routes CF fired


ICECOLD! - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=42717
10 Catch Fake
Game 1 - 104 Plays ~ 33 CF
Game 2 - 113 plays ~ 41 CF
Game 3 - 108 plays ~ 12 CF
Game 4 - 105 plays ~ 18 CF
Game 5 - 106 plays ~ 16 CF

22% of routes CF fired


Slot WR One - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=42720
10 Catch Fake
Game 1 - 104 Plays ~ 40 CF
Game 2 - 113 plays ~ 40 CF
Game 3 - 108 plays ~ 32 CF
Game 4 - 105 plays ~ 23 CF
Game 5 - 106 plays ~ 26 CF

30% of routes CF fired


Slot WR Two - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=42716
10 Catch Fake
Game 1 - 15 Plays ~ 3 CF
Game 2 - 34 plays ~ 18 CF
Game 3 - 49 plays ~ 15 CF
Game 4 - 71 plays ~ 11 CF
Game 5 - 74 plays ~ 15 CF

26% of routes CF fired


Receiving TE Two - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=42713
10 Catch Fake
Game 1 - 90 Plays ~ 13 CF
Game 2 - 79 plays ~ 14 CF
Game 3 - Depth chart error. someone loaded bTE
Game 4 - Another DC error. someone loaded bTE
Game 5 - 53 plays ~ 3 CF

13.5% of routes CF fired


Team 2
Possession WR One - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=42773
4 Catch Fake
Game 1 - 108 Plays ~ 11 CF
Game 2 - 107 plays ~ 15 CF
Game 3 - 90 plays ~ 4 CF
Game 4 - 105 plays ~ 6 CF
Game 5 - 105 plays ~ 5 CF

8% of routes CF fired


Slot WR One - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/depth_chart.pl?team_id=49
10 Catch Fake
Game 1 - 108 Plays ~ 49 CF
Game 2 - 107 plays ~ 47 CF
Game 3 - 90 plays ~ 17 CF
Game 4 - 102 plays ~ 16 CF
Game 5 - 105 plays ~ 22 CF

29% of routes CF fired


Slot WR Two - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=42770
10 Catch Fake
Game 1 - 36 Plays ~ 15 CF
Game 2 - 11 plays ~ 6 CF
Game 3 - 51 plays ~ 9 CF
Game 4 - 52 plays ~ 7 CF
Game 5 - 63 plays ~ 10 CF

22% of routes CF fired


Receiving TE Two - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=42767
10 Catch Fake
Game 1 - 73 Plays ~ 5 CF
Game 2 - 96 plays ~ 11 CF
Game 3 - 39 plays ~ 1 CF
Game 4 - 51 plays ~ 1 CF
Game 5 - 48 plays ~ 0 CF

6% of routes CF fired


Overall Data for % of Routes CF Fired

Team 1
Spd 2 ------ 26%
Ice --------- 22%
Slot 1 ----- 30%
Slot 2 ----- 26%
Rec TE--- 13.5%


Team 2
Poss 1 ----8%
Slot 1 ------29%
Slot 2 ------22%
Rec TE ----6%


Conclusions

The highest percentage was 30% and most 10 Catch Fake guys were in the 20-30% range which I don't think is bad by itself. But I bet if you were counting jukes and head fakes as well, this % would be closer to 75% for the team going against the defense with no avoid fake. Juke was firing just as much if not more than CF on some of the WR's (IceCold). Avoid fake defense was noticeably better, catch fakes not happening near as often and sometimes very late in the play. Although the players still managed to get near the same % as the team 1 squad which confuses me I would probably attribute this to longer plays in general for team 2 as nobody was getting open early giving them more time for a fake to fire.

Confidence impact on bad passes:


Originally posted by Catch22
Need someone to run the following test:

Run 5 test games, all passing, with the following team:

http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/team.pl?team_id=62

Only use this QB:

http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=42815

Report the following:

# of passes attempted
# of bad throws
# of times hurried
# of times bad throw was caused by hurry

Once done with these 5 games, let me know and I will change the QB confidence to 75. Repeat the 5 game test and reports as above.

Once done with those 5 games, let me know and I will change the QB confidence to 50. Repeat 5 game test again.



With 100 Confidence:
Game #1 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6034 (109, 11, 13, 6)
Game #2 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6035 (85, 2, 4, 2)
Game #3 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6036 (105, 7 ,20, 4)
Game #4 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6037 (108, 14, 26, 12)
Game #5 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6039 (105, 13, 18, 5)

# of passes attempted - 512
# of bad throws - 47 (9.18%)
# of times hurried - 81 (15.82%)
# of times bad throw was caused by hurry - 29 (5.66%)


With 75 Confidence:
Game #1 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6053 (109, 8, 18, 5)
Game #2 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6060 (113, 18, 22, 16)
Game #3 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6061 (109, 11, 21, 9)
Game #4 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6062 (105, 5, 15, 3)
Game #5 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6066 (108, 17, 22, 11)

# of passes attempted - 544
# of bad throws - 59 (10.85%)
# of times hurried - 98 (18.01%)
# of times bad throw was caused by hurry - 45 (8.27%)

With 50 Confidence:
Game #1 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6087 (110, 9 , 17, 6)
Game #2 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6088 (87, 22, 34, 20)
Game #3 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6089 (112, 9 , 22, 7)
Game #4 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6090 (70, 7, 23, 6)
Game #5 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6091 (98, 6, 17, 6)

# of passes attempted - 477
# of bad throws - 53 (11.11%)
# of times hurried - 113 (23.69%)
# of times bad throw was caused by hurry - 45 (9.43%)

Conclusion - I ran these games with the same offensive AI and same base defensive AI. As you can see I do not feel there is much of a noticeable difference from 100 confidence to 50 confidence.

CF firing at 20% plus is way to high in my opinion. One catch fake can easily turn into a 80 yard pass as we have seen. Do that 1 out of every 5 throws and you get what we had at times this year, games with 50-70 points plus per side.

Do not forget to throw all the pump fakes, head fakes and jukes and you get a very overpowered offense.

Originally posted by voegma
CF firing at 20% plus is way to high in my opinion. One catch fake can easily turn into a 80 yard pass as we have seen. Do that 1 out of every 5 throws and you get what we had at times this year, games with 50-70 points plus per side.

Do not forget to throw all the pump fakes, head fakes and jukes and you get a very overpowered offense.



Catch Fake firing isn't nearly as bad with the changes. It might fire 20% for the guys that are built well to do it, but that doesn't necessarily mean its doing much of anything.

Originally posted by Catch22
With 100 Confidence:
Game #1 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6034 (109, 11, 13, 6)
Game #2 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6035 (85, 2, 4, 2)
Game #3 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6036 (105, 7 ,20, 4)
Game #4 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6037 (108, 14, 26, 12)
Game #5 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6039 (105, 13, 18, 5)

# of passes attempted - 512
# of bad throws - 47 (9.18%)
# of times hurried - 81 (15.82%)
# of times bad throw was caused by hurry - 29 (5.66%)


With 75 Confidence:
Game #1 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6053 (109, 8, 18, 5)
Game #2 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6060 (113, 18, 22, 16)
Game #3 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6061 (109, 11, 21, 9)
Game #4 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6062 (105, 5, 15, 3)
Game #5 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6066 (108, 17, 22, 11)

# of passes attempted - 544
# of bad throws - 59 (10.85%)
# of times hurried - 98 (18.01%)
# of times bad throw was caused by hurry - 45 (8.27%)

With 50 Confidence:
Game #1 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6087 (110, 9 , 17, 6)
Game #2 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6088 (87, 22, 34, 20)
Game #3 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6089 (112, 9 , 22, 7)
Game #4 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6090 (70, 7, 23, 6)
Game #5 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6091 (98, 6, 17, 6)

# of passes attempted - 477
# of bad throws - 53 (11.11%)
# of times hurried - 113 (23.69%)
# of times bad throw was caused by hurry - 45 (9.43%)

Conclusion - I ran these games with the same offensive AI and same base defensive AI. As you can see I do not feel there is much of a noticeable difference from 100 confidence to 50 confidence.

So... confidence has a greater effect at reducing bad passes due to hurries, but that you can expect the same % of bad passes as before, just fewer because of hurries?

Was the rest of the build altered or just the confidence? If only confidence was altered, is there a good reason to invest in it? Did you notice that the EFFECT of the bad pass was more significant when a hurry was present?

Confidence 100 = 47/512 bad passes - 9.2%
Confidence 75 = 59/544 bad passes - 10.8%
Confidence 50 = 53/477 bad passes - 11.1%

It doesn't matter if the bad pass is due to a hurry (which is reduced by adding confidence), it matters how many bad passes the QB is going to throw, otherwise why invest in confidence?

I would expect that the lower confidence QB should have morale issues, which in theory SHOULD result in more bad passes as the game goes on, but considering the EQ or SP expense of getting from 50 to 100 Confidence, you would expect the total number of bad passes to be significantly reduced, not marginally.

Makes me glad I chose the deep passer... seems like strength, agility, throwing, and vision are going to play a much bigger part in making a good pass than confidence will. And if you cut the effect of pump fake (the bonus SA for pocket passer) there is even less reason to choose that arch.

Originally posted by Time Trial
So... confidence has a greater effect at reducing bad passes due to hurries, but that you can expect the same % of bad passes as before, just fewer because of hurries?

Was the rest of the build altered or just the confidence? If only confidence was altered, is there a good reason to invest in it? Did you notice that the EFFECT of the bad pass was more significant when a hurry was present?

Confidence 100 = 47/512 bad passes - 9.2%
Confidence 75 = 59/544 bad passes - 10.8%
Confidence 50 = 53/477 bad passes - 11.1%

It doesn't matter if the bad pass is due to a hurry (which is reduced by adding confidence), it matters how many bad passes the QB is going to throw, otherwise why invest in confidence?

I would expect that the lower confidence QB should have morale issues, which in theory SHOULD result in more bad passes as the game goes on, but considering the EQ or SP expense of getting from 50 to 100 Confidence, you would expect the total number of bad passes to be significantly reduced, not marginally.

Makes me glad I chose the deep passer... seems like strength, agility, throwing, and vision are going to play a much bigger part in making a good pass than confidence will. And if you cut the effect of pump fake (the bonus SA for pocket passer) there is even less reason to choose that arch.

The numbers are such that over a season the stats would show a difference, but it wouldn't really be noticeable in a game.

QB builds are locked, there' s only one way to build them if you want them to function at a championship level at the Pro level. I wait for Bort to fix that, this confidence thing could be a step in the right direction.

For the QB confidence testing, do any of the QB's have the Pocket Presence SA?

Originally posted by DiMo28
For the QB confidence testing, do any of the QB's have the Pocket Presence SA?

9 in PP and 15 in Quick Release.

I have to agree with TT....confidence really seems to be a bust based on the tests.

"Nerves of Steel" seems like it within the name itself would help, but of course it has nothing to do with preventing a shaky QB.

What about "Thick Skin" though?

If CON is this broken on QBs, how messed up is it on other positions? Personally, I've never seen a need to get it over 48 (but have take it to 60 from time to time). Especially now that there are no competitive pan/rev cakes.

In the live Q&A you guys just did, Bort said one way to lower bad passes was to improve your roll against the incoming pressure roll. He said the 3 main things to do that were Confidence, Pass Quality and Pocket Presence. So are you saying you could spend tons of SP and raise CON from 50 to 100 and see no real difference? Wouldn't that mean there was a bug?

I'm so glad I changed my CeQ to +6 CON and +4 PP for nothing.

Best way to lower bad passes is to get a better oline. If QB is hurried and has to throw the ball before anyone is open, it's likely not gonna be completed anyways. Bad throw or not

Originally posted by bdnannac
In the live Q&A you guys just did, Bort said one way to lower bad passes was to improve your roll against the incoming pressure roll. He said the 3 main things to do that were Confidence, Pass Quality and Pocket Presence. So are you saying you could spend tons of SP and raise CON from 50 to 100 and see no real difference? Wouldn't that mean there was a bug?

I'm so glad I changed my CeQ to +6 CON and +4 PP for nothing.

It is not a bug since CON do make a difference 9% compared to 11%. Just not as much as one would expect.

I'm so glad I told my QB to use Hometown Hero.

Originally posted by Catch22

Team 1
Spd 2 ------ 26%
Ice --------- 22%
Slot 1 ----- 30%
Slot 2 ----- 26%
Rec TE--- 13.5%


Team 2
Poss 1 ----8%
Slot 1 ------29%
Slot 2 ------22%
Rec TE ----6%



why rTE get half the CF as WRs ?
Is there a build difference ? play calling difference ? or sim difference ?

Originally posted by tragula
It is not a bug since CON do make a difference 9% compared to 11%. Just not as much as one would expect.

I'm so glad I told my QB to use Hometown Hero.

OK so no bug. But from 50 to 100 should be way more than 2% imo.