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Catch22
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I will update this periodically including observations/recommendations by testers and Bort's responses. We discussed whether to roll back the sim to season 24/25 but decided there were too many bug fixes and sim fixes that had been implemented that would cause issues. So we're moving forward addressing issues that are problematic in the sim and tweaking/fixing/adjusting to try and make the sim a more enjoyable one.

The following are the changes that have been uploaded to the test server by Bort that the testers are currently evaluating. I will post observations/feedback once the testers have compiled their reports for me:

- New throw targeting/catching math and algorithms imported as we discussed. It does some pre-caching and validation to make sure the landing spot that I actually get at the end of the throw is the landing spot I want, instead of potentially ending up being off due to rounding imprecision and whatnot. Also should have speedier calculations overall, since it only pre-calculates the ball flight path once instead of over and over each tick.

- Fixed a bug I found in the QB risk calculation where it was counting some defender distances wrong. Seems to have fixed a couple issues with open guys having too-high of a risk and not getting a throw. Also made single coverage risk lower based on how early in the progression the receiver is.

- Got some other new code imported to figure out whether a player can reach a point or not within a time limit more accurately. Added this to the lead pass function. Passes should now be able to be more reliably led to the extremes of a player's reach without overthrowing all the time. Before I had to limit the lead distance a bit more than I'd like due to complicated calculations with acceleration and turning speed, etc not always being right.

- Increased the tackle penalty for blocked players, and made it so their tackle radius is severely limited (it was unaffected before). Also made it so they don't get a chance to tackle if they're double+ teamed.

- Made the vision check on reacting to pitches quite a bit harder. Note this only affects pitches and not counters and handoffs. I dunno if we want to try and buff those at all.

- Removed cut blocking for non-line play (mainly affects ST). Also loosened the KR movement shackles a bit.

- Reduced the bad pass chance a smidge, and made it so it doesn't call it a bad pass if it's caught.

- Got my pathfinding snippet imported, and just based it on the current movement vector since we don't have a facing vector. Not much of a noticeable difference, really, since paths on GLB are averaged and smoothed out, but theoretically we should see more side-to-side avoidance movement as a player gets closer and closer to an obstacle, based on a tangential vector to his current movement vector.

- Reduced the fall down chance on int catches more.

- Uploaded a fix for a crossing route targeting math bug.


List of games can be found here: http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game_list.pl





6/5/2012 Update

Mike Rogers put together an excellent summary of the testing feedback:


Overall Comment on Changes

All changes seem to have achieved a measure of success in the areas they specifically address, with the following concerns on sim Balance;

- Passing Game is looking to become Over Powered, and at least is the easy route for majority of teams.
- Late Game/Comeback Pass stacking looks Over Powered.
- Inside runs will prompt the Bunch Spread to become overly relied upon.
- Outside Runs/Pitches have not improved significantly enough to allow for them to be a legitimate tactic for balanced teams.


Change to QB Leads

QB leads fix has been successful, imo... and all who have tested agreed its a big improvement.

There are still some poor leads back towards the LoS on crossing routes, but they do balance out some of the excellent (and exciting) leads on deep passes that result in TDs.

Probably need to confirm 3rd/4th down plays correctly attempt leading for a first down the majority of the time, but dont lead a target beneath the first down marker. (Don't have to lead crossing route upfield, but shouldnt lead them bak to LoS as often.)

Also need to confirm that Leads do not extend beyond the End Zone (too often).


QB Progressions : http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=1713&page=1#27539 for full feedback.

QB risk calculation bug fix has been successful imo.

QBs show far more consistency in bahaviour, and a logical decision is made the majority of times.
There are still a few instances of a bad decision that will cause some rage, but the balance is very much on the side of perfection.

QB do seem to be very patient under a 3 or 4 man rush.
This makes it almost impossible for defenders to maintain coverage as plays are extended.

General Blitzing is also becoming a bigger risk than reward due to the imporved progressions and leads allowing for big play potential almost every time between evenly matched competition. DCs will fall back on "Exploit Blitzing" that will be copied at all levels, expected to increase trend towards even more extreme blitzing LB/DB builds over time.


Bad Passes
Looks a lot better in general, combination of the better leads, and the bad pass flag removed if caught now shows a clear and logical connection to hurry pressue and Bad Passes.
Hurry Pressure creating Bad Passes Seems to be balanced right now, but is something to potentially turn up or down.
Not sure if enough plays are Hurried though based on the tests I've seen, need to look into this more closely, and also the Hurry to Sack ratio for DLs.

General Passing Game Balance
Very much in favour of the Offense right now.
DCs will have no choice but to counter by spamming the trendy blitzes, so expect


Vision Check Delay for Pitches

While there is a visible difference in how the plays develop, the end results are very much the same.

Pitches against almost all defenses result in a Loss or short gain as the norm, even in scouted situations where you would expect long gains defensive reactions are good enough to blow up the play sometimes.

A lot of the feedback for successful Pitches are based on very poor or unused defenses (Pre Made plays.) allowed to skew opinions a little.

There is certainly an issue with Blocking assignments where a OG is Pulling on the Pitch Play, often resulting in him being ineffective at making a block and allowing blitzers through to stuff the run, sometimes before the hand off.

When Ball Carriers make the edge, they are breaking and faking, so the potential for big plays is there now with the delay penalty.

Probably need to clean up some of the blocking (Note most of the plays which work well are from the recent bug fix to some of the outside run plays last season.)


Reduced Tackle Chance for Blocker Defenders

Seems to be ok in testing, see xxx and xxx tests/feedback for full details.

But I still have reservations as the balancing point here is very fine.
Its either going to be too easy for some teams (Mid to lower levels where build advantages are more pronounced specifically), or too easy/hard for every one.

Major rservation is its combined effect with improved Passing game, as defenses will have to go to more and more 33,32 or 31 defenses, has the potential to make a balnced inside run game look too powerful based on defensive play design prtecting the pass.


STs Changes (Unshackled Returner, Less Cut Blocks, New Pathing)

This seems to be successful.
Returns are certainly not overpowered, but there is a little more movement, and more to "Get your hopes up" that he just might break this one off.
Hvent really reviewed for any unforseen issues with coverage teams converging, or Lead blockers picking up wrong threats, but seems ok.


Over Powered D-Line vs Under Powered O-Line
See notes above for tests.

There is a lack of ability for D-Line to be able to build to be effective Pass Rushers, tests show the level of build advantage needed is impossible to reach.
Pocket degredation against 4 DL rush is a little too slow it seems when over matched.

Against 3 DLs its way too slow, I know this was added to penalise defenses swarming coverage and killing the passing game, but that pendulum has swung back towards the offense and needs rebalancing.





Based partially on that feedback, Bort has made the following updates to the test server and we are now conducting testing on these updates:

Originally posted by Bort
Things just uploaded, based on feedback thus far:

- New clock manager and comeback kid bonuses. Comeback kid is less powerful, and clock manager changed pretty much entirely, but is now potentially useful for every position.

- Chance for defender interaction with passed ball increased a bit, with a little bigger interaction radius. With improved leading making separation and speed quite a bit more effective, I think good defense should probably be rewarded more with more deflection and int chances. The increase may or may not be enough; I'll leave that up to you guys to figure out.

- Underneath lead allowed distance reduced to a couple yards, and only 1 yd on 3rd/4th down attempts. Should hopefully help some of the "led him too short" issues for first down attempts.

- Bumped up the pass rush bonus over time value a bit; this can be scaled more or less as needed easily enough.

- Changed method of delaying reaction vs runs. This affects both outside and inside runs, though, so something to look for in all cases. I noticed many of the "guy reacts too fast" complaints were for players who were already blitzing. They were just automatically targeting the ball carrier, switching instantly as the ball was pitched away. Now they will continue to target the QB and must pass a vision check to turn around. It becomes automatic pass when the HB passes the LOS, or if he passes close enough to them, to keep guys from failing miserably for the duration of the play or something.

- Bumped up the while-blocked tackle radius by a foot, and reduced the tackle penalty to about in the middle of where it was and the live version.

- Bumped up the run block pancake bonus based on strength differential a little bit.

- Pretty sure the fumble/missed ball bug where the players don't go for the ball should be fixed.

- The knocked loose/dropped/tipped ball not changing its trajectory should be fixed.




6/7 update

I sent many comments/feedback to Bort based upon tester reports and feedback along with some recommendations (which are mostly included in the updates). Mike, again, provided another excellent summary/feedback.

Mike Rogers Summary:

STs

Looks fine as is for balance.
There are still issues with all coverage units bunching together, http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=5656&pbp_id=170817
and with PR blockers not engaging early. The bunching is the major issue as leads to TDs and can be forced/exploited by design.

But really not sure about the removal of Cut Block for next season.
I was against it originally from a realism perspective, but this change will be met with widescale disapproval, so needs to be significantly justified.

Would like to see STs Cut Block reactivated and Tested to provide a valid reasoning for the change, which justifies the reset to builds.

(Perception issue only)


QB Leads and Progressions

Looks good, massive improvemnts seen in all tests.


Outside Runs

Now viable in scouted situations, still a lot of work needed on FB Blocking in general, and Pulling Guards decision making... bhall's quick fix for forcing Pulling OG to ignore DE might work, (and if it causes DE to be free occassionally, will at least let DLs make a significant play once in a while)

I have major reservations that the majority of yardage gained is due to the following Defensive reaction;


http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=5581&pbp_id=156487
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=5581&pbp_id=156491
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=5577&pbp_id=155922
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=5528&pbp_id=145385
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=5528&pbp_id=145384
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=5528&pbp_id=145386
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=5528&pbp_id=145392 - (LOLB)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=5528&pbp_id=145398 - All three

This type of missed tackle/defender flying past the LoS is the main reason for outside run gains now...
Its not really possible to draw up a defense to cope with the new sim without encountering these issues.


Inside Runs

Increased Pancakes have opened this up a little for more big play potential, but still looks to be well balanced.
Still a lack of ability for DLs to make big plays in this area of the game, mostly coming from NTs shedding a C and making the tackle for a short gain.


PHASE 2 SPECIFICS

- Defense ability to interact with the ball
tbc

Based on Spin's test data this seems to be nicely balanced : http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=1741&page=1#28385
Reviewing this specifically now.


- New clock manager and comeback kid bonuses

Appears to be successful, difficult to specifically test for the impact, but having reviewed the Test Games with more "realistic" gameplans I am seeing an overall more exciting sim, with less drastic comebacks making the first 3 qtrs redundant.

There is still plenty of scope to strategise to keep games close and focus on the end game specifically, but now rquires some effort.


- Bumped up the pass rush bonus over time value a bit

My initial thoughts from reviewing test games is this could be increased again as not seeing a significant increase in real situations, however my recommendation would be to do so a day or two after released on Live Server, after wider review.

Maybe release as is, Bump on Test Server to find a desired balance, and review Live Site data to verify if Buff is needed.


- Changed method of delaying reaction vs runs.

This has been very effective, especially against inside gap blitzing vs outside runs.
There are a lot of Odd looking plays now though, where players fail the vision check badly : http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=5577&pbp_id=155911 - FS here. Expect these type of plays to not be well recieved.


But I'm not positive that there is enough visible effect of build difference?
Seems to be very RNG, not sure if its a bad thing though, but might consider a very slight reduction in the vision check difficulty, so that the 90 Vision+SV builds are less effected than ~70 Vision types.



- Bumped up the run block pancake bonus based on strength differential a little bit.

Seems balanced, and although pure Speed rush DEs arent quite pancaked enough, they do not need another nerf and do not currently effect the play as are solidly pushed back without the pancake.
LBs and DBs are being decimated appropriately though.


- Bumped up the while-blocked tackle radius by a foot, and reduced the tackle penalty


Seems to be well balanced now in Test Games.


------------------

Bort uploaded the following changes to the test server for additional testing:


Originally posted by Bort
Stuff uploaded based on feedback:

- Strong Base skill made to work on run blocking, as I noted in the last Q/A.

- Increased the bad pass chance reduction value for lower levels (less bad basses at lower levels)

- Increased the fumble chance a little in general. Also decided to make "power" tackling style have a chance to double the power of the monster/big hit bonus, to emphasize its power-ness. Made it fairly random, and it can be mitigated some by the ball carrier having good carrying.

- Increased the power of tackle break SA's a little, hurdle a little more.

- I reworked the vision check formula for reacting to runs to use an exponential function based on vision instead of linear, so higher vision defenders should see an even better chance of reacting when compared to low vision. It seems like a good idea in theory, and looked reasonable in my test, but I am not sure how well this will work out in comparison to the old linear method. It's easy enough to change back if lower level players suck too much or something.

- Made pulling G's ignore DEs until they get out past the box. This suggestion was sorta hacky; they still sometimes to turn back around and still go after the DE if they've managed to slip their block and nobody else is around, but I guess they're at least tending to block them toward the middle more.

- Increased the power of time-based pass rush bonus a bit more, but it starts applying a bit later.

- Calculating new landing point bug on muffed kickoffs, etc should be fixed now. I managed to recreate it and got it to work, so let me know if it still shows up somewhere.

- Reduced chance of fake from non SA based movement (like http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=5683&pbp_id=177204) - I've been looking through replays and I think those kind of fakes seems to be happening too often without a juke SA or something going off.




Edited by Catch22 on Jun 7, 2012 07:33:58
Edited by Catch22 on Jun 7, 2012 07:22:49
Edited by Catch22 on Jun 5, 2012 01:00:01
Edited by Catch22 on Jun 3, 2012 22:12:00
 
FuriousGeorge
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Right on.
 
ProfessionalKop
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hellz to the yeah
 
AD2K
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Who are the testers?
 
AD2K
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http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=5442&pbp_id=127252
Nice to know I should be hitting 60+ yard FGs this season

http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=5441
Holy shit thats a lot of sacks
 
WiSeIVIaN
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Originally posted by ProfessionalKop
hellz to the yeah


 
onemiln09
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bigtisme
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Any chance for more broken tackles on outside run plays?
 
Gustoon
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Good work , well done Would have loved to see S24/25 back though

Originally posted by Catch22

- Reduced the bad pass chance a smidge, and made it so it doesn't call it a bad pass if it's caught.


Needs more than a smidge IMO

Pass to completion ratio needs to be higher as well I think...

http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=5423
TOTAL PASSING YARDS --- 603.5 --- 500
Completions/Attempts --- 35/56 --- 34/64
Edited by Gustoon on Jun 4, 2012 01:15:19
Edited by Gustoon on Jun 4, 2012 01:08:52
Edited by Gustoon on Jun 4, 2012 01:08:39
 
bhall43
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I think you should watch the games before going to the box score and saying completion rate needs to be higher. From all the games I have watched thus far completion rating is pretty damn good. In fact almost too good for the sort of passing that is going on.
 
GroovyCheetah
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Good to see some one is still committed to this game and the sim thanks for the Hard work Catch and testers
 
Gustoon
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Originally posted by bhall43
I think you should watch the games before going to the box score and saying completion rate needs to be higher. From all the games I have watched thus far completion rating is pretty damn good. In fact almost too good for the sort of passing that is going on.


For what its worth, I did watch THAT game, but not all. If there is progress with the passing game, its all good
 
brunswick1075
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All fixes sound really good.

I hope the testers are allowed to test for as long as they need to churn out a quality sim(withinreason)
 
Robbnva
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Originally posted by
- Made the vision check on reacting to pitches quite a bit harder. Note this only affects pitches and not counters and handoffs. I dunno if we want to try and buff those at all.


For counters, definitely yes. Handoffs not so much IMO

Edit- since my thread was deleted, I still think the new testers should be named.
Edited by Robbnva on Jun 4, 2012 05:54:28
 
dlawilliams
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Originally posted by bigtisme
Any chance for more broken tackles on outside run plays?


Yes,please make cbs with shitty tackling skills pay for it a bit

 
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