Warrior General Games

I think one of the issues you run in to is; how do you determine who the "worst" Pro teams are?

It's clear that sorting is based far more on record than effective team levels...the teams that are moving up too fast to the Pro leagues are getting hammered [Dallas is an exception to this], their record is terrible and then they get shuffled back down the ladder. It has more to do with the younger dots, and sorting on record, than it does with the talent of the team.

Those teams that head to Elite #1 or #2 right away and get pwned will get laterally demoted to National Pro and have to wait 2-3 seasons to get back in to consideration for WL promotion.

If you took more overall effective team level into sorting consideration, this may work as intended for all.

Don't the other tiers work because you can change the # of leagues overall and in each tier each season? This does nothing to change that, it just assumes that you can somehow get the best 64 non-WL teams together in elite (you can't, any more than you can get the best 32 teams in WL), and that everything will work out with a fixed number of league openings in Competitive.
What *are* the regular rules for promoting into Elite, playoff teams from elite and conf champs from competitive, plus however many teams you need to make an even 32?

So, that should be:
24 teams who made playoffs but didn't make final for in elite
8 teams who demote from WL
16 teams per league from Regional Pro Elite
2 teams per league from Regional Pro Competitive

Right now there are 3 regional pro elite and 7 competitive. That's:
24+8+16*3+7*2 = 94 teams. There's only 64 slots, what 30 teams don't get to be in Elite?

If you want to take the Elite/Competitive/Normal model up to the top, you have to be willing to change how many National Pro leagues of each type there are each season, and how promotion to WL works from them. Probably each season.

Elite leagues are awesome, competition and rivalries are back. This is a great idea +1

+1, but for proper balance of teams and players, change the age limits. Median level/eff.lvl of team sets what league they are put into.

+1 need better names though

Made a couple changes to OP.

1) Demoting WL teams go to Elite - makes no sense to demote them to the other leagues.
2) Changed the structure a bit so that winning league championship game in Normal league = Promotion to WL.

Get rid of World League entirely. All it accomplishes is ruining rivalries, which we are supposedly trying to improve. Counter-productive.

The other bad thing World League does is perpetuate itself. That is, a lot of the elite dots only want to go to World League teams, therefore it is easier for World League teams to recruit them, therefore once a team survives its first season in World League it becomes easier to stay there.

GET RID OF IT. Level the playing field for all Pro teams from a recruiting perspective. Restore the rivalries that make this game and its forums great.

nope, don't like it. I want my team to play in Eastern Europe and not in a no name Pro league (elite or not).

Originally posted by gocincinnati
Get rid of World League entirely. All it accomplishes is ruining rivalries, which we are supposedly trying to improve. Counter-productive.


this too.

Originally posted by NiborRis
Don't the other tiers work because you can change the # of leagues overall and in each tier each season? This does nothing to change that, it just assumes that you can somehow get the best 64 non-WL teams together in elite (you can't, any more than you can get the best 32 teams in WL), and that everything will work out with a fixed number of league openings in Competitive.
What *are* the regular rules for promoting into Elite, playoff teams from elite and conf champs from competitive, plus however many teams you need to make an even 32?

So, that should be:
24 teams who made playoffs but didn't make final for in elite
8 teams who demote from WL
16 teams per league from Regional Pro Elite
2 teams per league from Regional Pro Competitive

Right now there are 3 regional pro elite and 7 competitive. That's:
24+8+16*3+7*2 = 94 teams. There's only 64 slots, what 30 teams don't get to be in Elite?

If you want to take the Elite/Competitive/Normal model up to the top, you have to be willing to change how many National Pro leagues of each type there are each season, and how promotion to WL works from them. Probably each season.

That's a good point. We could possibly have the number of Pro leagues dependent upon the # of spots that need to be filled.

Here is my theory.

An average Regional Pro team gets thrown in to NP #7 or #8, but they had a great recruiting off-season and became an elite team (only they are in #7 or #8 based on previous season). Now they have to win twice to become a WL team that they might have become in their stay in #7 or #8.

I just like the underdog factor here. I don't see these teams being too happy about becoming great in 1 season and not gettting a chance to show their stuff.

You will say that they should win at the Elite Pro level the next season then, but I would argue that the players will think they are good enough to play WL now and leave the team for a guaranteed shot.

Originally posted by Catch22
Made a couple changes to OP.

1) Demoting WL teams go to Elite - makes no sense to demote them to the other leagues.
2) Changed the structure a bit so that winning league championship game in Normal league = Promotion to WL.

Now I like it.

Originally posted by Catch22
So it's 34-27 for/against. I'd love to hear comments from those that are against it as to why they are against it. Provide some logic behind your vote please.

Personally from my experience in the pro leagues the past several seasons there really have just been 1-3 in each conference that stand out in a class of there own. Sometimes those teams, even though dominant within their respective pro league, still lose the majority of games vs WL teams.

So what happens is that you have teams that are really too good for most pro league teams, but not good enough to handle themselves in the WL.

A common example of that is that most teams upon demoting from WL come back to their respective pro league and just return the next season. APL has seen it with D9, WWR in past seasons. EPL with Sofia etc. My team, Speyside, had the same issue. Little effort was needed in getting to the championship game of the WEPL final after a prior WL demotion, only to win a few games the next season in the WL.

I have thought for several seasons now that a better idea would be to create a league that is in between the pro leagues and the WL. The specifics of that league could be more designed to weed out which teams should be going to the WL, while not diluting to much talent from the pro leagues (IE having a smaller league team size).I haven't thought out specifics on it, so its just a raw idea that i do believe can be molded into something tangibly successful.

Basically the suggestion by catch removes any regional affiliation. Im not a fan of that which im sure what most people think.
For someone who has had a team in Africa sence season 5, to me it seems like this erases any of the identity that this game has created for my team. With league forums being a huge part of the social interaction within this game, id have to imagine i would lose my beloved APL forum along with all the agents as they are shuffled into their respective new leagues. That doesn't seem fun to me.

Originally posted by Catch22
Too many people would get butt hurt if their league affiliation was not the Elite league. Better to just keep the names generic like we do throughout the structure.

nope. I want my team to play in Eastern Europe (elite or whatever). I dislike WL and I propose to get rid of this. This is my humble opinion.

I think we should keep the regional affiliations which is what the World League is based on.

Your fine with the promotion/demotions as outlined, but why not keep the naming of leagues instead of going to this terrible naming scheme we have in the Minors (this should have been done better in the first place with all due respect to DD).

Just go to 2 Elite leagues and 8 Competitive, and name them this:

Pro Elite #1 - Western Hemisphere
Pro Elite #2 - Eastern Hemisphere

These leagues feed the Western Hemisphere:

Pro Competitive #1 - USA
Pro Competitive #3 - Canada
Pro Competitive #5 - South American
Pro Competitive #7 - Carribean

Pro Competitive #2 - Western Europe
Pro Competitive #4 - Eastern Europe
Pro Competitive #6 - South East Asia
Pro Competitive #8 - African

This is much cleaner and makes more sense with the World League.