Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Hagalaz

No one acknowledges that simply because it is not the truth. The sim isn't making you win by 255. It's the fact that there are too-weak teams in a conference that does.


The reason that teams win 255-0 is because one team is CPUs. The reason that games are routinely won by 50-100 points is because the sim massively exaggerates differences in build strength. It is impossible to structure the leagues to give solid competition across the whole conference because even a couple of levels difference in effective level makes games totally one-sided.

A conference full of human teams and human players, all within 3-4 effective levels of each other, should be able to play competitive games EVERY game. The fact that they cannot is totally down to the sim. The fact that capped leagues currently cannot produce competitive games between teams of very similar level is proof that changing the league structure a bit is not going to make any difference. The only restructure that would help is to have far smaller leagues made up of teams that are of virtually identical strength, and completely re-sort all the teams every season.

What is planned will have no real effect - in 40 days time we will all be back here complaining about blowouts again (minus the increasing number of people who are so bored they will have quit).

Question - will a similar structure be implemented in the casual leagues?

I had planned on requesting the three tier jump to AA for my cap 38 team since it looks like we shouldn't have a problem making the championship game, but if this structure is implemented in casual, I'll be stuck with half of a AA team which I've tirelessly recruited since day 20. Anyway I can get an answer so I'm not stuck in limbo until the day Bort & Co. decides to make the official announcement?

Originally posted by ryanshaw
The reason that teams win 255-0 is because one team is CPUs. The reason that games are routinely won by 50-100 points is because the sim massively exaggerates differences in build strength. It is impossible to structure the leagues to give solid competition across the whole conference because even a couple of levels difference in effective level makes games totally one-sided.

A conference full of human teams and human players, all within 3-4 effective levels of each other, should be able to play competitive games EVERY game. The fact that they cannot is totally down to the sim. The fact that capped leagues currently cannot produce competitive games between teams of very similar level is proof that changing the league structure a bit is not going to make any difference. The only restructure that would help is to have far smaller leagues made up of teams that are of virtually identical strength, and completely re-sort all the teams every season.

What is planned will have no real effect - in 40 days time we will all be back here complaining about blowouts again (minus the increasing number of people who are so bored they will have quit).



Gameplanning plays the biggest role. Levels within 5 of each other is meaningless. Some game plan well, many don't.

Originally posted by NoTears316

Why intentionally water down the leagues like that? There are much better ways to advance teams throughout the tiers.

Then what are they?

Here's the problem. People get upset when they face a team they can't beat because that team SSB'd a 55 player roster. So the promo system was created to kick them up the caps. Except trophy winners started griping because 3 caps up meant they were a borderline playoff team and they were "being punished for winning" ... so suddenly the system was adjusted to make the third promotion optional. Not long after other promotions started becoming optional. People tank games to stay down to pick on other teams, etc, etc. That will never, ever be 100% competitive ... some teams will have always found a way to sneak in under the rules, and some teams will always have just missed the cut off and be too high.

255-0 is mostly because of teams with partial rosters, except when facing a Pro League quality team. Any Pro League quality team in A, AA and 90% of the time in AAA will be promoted the next season. That problem fixes itself, as long as the other league members accept they'll just have to accept losing to the Pro team for a season. As long as the system doesn't allow a Pro League quality team to enter A or AA, everything should be fine.

Of course, nothing stops a previously non-Pro-quality team that enters A legitimately from just signing an entire Pro roster. That's the mechanic that worries me.

Originally posted by ryanshaw
The reason that teams win 255-0 is because one team is CPUs.
No, not really. There are many 255-0 wins that are not CPUs.


Originally posted by ryanshaw
The reason that games are routinely won by 50-100 points is because the sim massively exaggerates differences in build strength.
And yet, even though a 75-3 win is horrible, it is much less worse than a 255-0 one.


Originally posted by ryanshaw
It is impossible to structure the leagues to give solid competition across the whole conference because even a couple of levels difference in effective level makes games totally one-sided.
Disagree. With a 4-level range, it is player talent that separates victories and defeats, not level, unless those ranges allow some teams to have a tier of equipment and others not.

Originally posted by ryanshaw
A conference full of human teams and human players, all within 3-4 effective levels of each other, should be able to play competitive games EVERY game.
It all depends on your definition of competitive. In GLB something like 50-14 is not as outrageous as it would be in real life.


Originally posted by ryanshaw
The fact that they cannot is totally down to the sim.
Completely agree, but the issue isn't build strength. It's that this game is RIDICULOUSLY lopsided towards offense, scoring and stats. HBs go for above 5 or 6 YPC when they should be going for like 3. We have 160 plays per game when there should be like 120. This is a question of the game itself, it has nothing to do with build strength or league competitiveness, it runs much deeper than that.


Originally posted by ryanshaw
The fact that capped leagues currently cannot produce competitive games between teams of very similar level is proof that changing the league structure a bit is not going to make any difference.
Shouldn't it be proof of the opposite?

Originally posted by ryanshaw
The only restructure that would help is to have far smaller leagues made up of teams that are of virtually identical strength, and completely re-sort all the teams every season.
Yes, that would be perfect. However bort doesn't like that. So we are stuck with this. It IS better than nothing.

Maybe I am missing something but I don't see how this is changing anything. It is basically the same league structure we have now with some tweaks to promotion and demotion. The tweaks should have been tried a long time ago so we could watch them fail and be working on a better solution now.

My point is that the OP plan will fail because it does not address the last 2 or 3 seasons of mistakes. We need to really clean house this offseason for the OP to have any chance at working.

The issue I haven't seen addressed (maybe I missed it) is the need for multiple offseason shuffles to catch the teams that merge, gut, or quit after the first shuffle.

I also think it would be a good idea to let teams do some # of "chemistry" free moves in the first 4 days of the offseason. This would allow teams to reload a bit with less penalty, and also encourage those teams that know they are going to move players to get them done early & be more true to form when the shuffles happen.

Im dominating the WL and Im saying go back to pro leagues only....hold a tournament at the seasons end for GLB best.

Originally posted by ImTheScientist
Im dominating the WL and Im saying go back to pro leagues only....hold a tournament at the seasons end for GLB best.

Agree

Originally posted by AngryDragon
Maybe I am missing something but I don't see how this is changing anything. It is basically the same league structure we have now with some tweaks to promotion and demotion. The tweaks should have been tried a long time ago so we could watch them fail and be working on a better solution now.

This was my first impression.

We added A and a 54-cap league. That's about it.

And some of the promotion rules are quite odd. Elite 46 playoff teams go to A? So you'll have level 50-55 teams playing level 70+ teams? Seems like a penalty for being a good Elite 46 team.

Honestly, without accelerating player development, restructuring the league system is fairly pointless.

Originally posted by Dpride59
Originally posted by ImTheScientist

Im dominating the WL and Im saying go back to pro leagues only....hold a tournament at the seasons end for GLB best.

Agree

Agree Quote pyramid in 3... 2...

Originally posted by j10er
Honestly, without accelerating player development, restructuring the league system is fairly pointless.

I find myself agreeing alot lately

DD, Is anything going to be done to raise competition in the casual leagues?


http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=1217431

Originally posted by SeattleNiner
The issue I haven't seen addressed (maybe I missed it) is the need for multiple offseason shuffles to catch the teams that merge, gut, or quit after the first shuffle.

I also think it would be a good idea to let teams do some # of "chemistry" free moves in the first 4 days of the offseason. This would allow teams to reload a bit with less penalty, and also encourage those teams that know they are going to move players to get them done early & be more true to form when the shuffles happen.

Good points. Especially the roster moves with less chem penalty.