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Forum > Test Server Discussion > Test Server Test Results > New Pump Fake, Catch Fake, Look Off, some of the new run plays and Energy test
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Worker 3
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Originally posted by geekor
So Catch,

when all these changes were announced, you also said you were going to go over all the old SA's and essentially do a balancing check on them. It was believed this would be done BEFORE these new rollouts were forced upon us as choosing bonus/penalty SA's as well as an extra SA, and then having the SA's effectiveness changed on us RIGHT AFTER would be a giant screw job.

So were the SA's tested and/or adjusted? Or was that put on the back burner, will be done and "possibly" (yes I know it won't happen to everyone) screw over a huge margin of players a short way down the road?


pretty sure catch said that balancing the SAs wouldnt be ready for this next season. sounds like S16 though, they should be ready.
 
PP
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Originally posted by cosmoxl
isn't that what "catch in stride" is for?


yeah, that's what he is saying...in his SA tests, speedster WRs with CaS didn't slow down nearly as much as they otherwise would have, at least that sure seems to be what he is saying to me
 
StoutOne
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Are there replays of Catch in Stride yet?
 
Catch22
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Originally posted by geekor
So Catch,

when all these changes were announced, you also said you were going to go over all the old SA's and essentially do a balancing check on them. It was believed this would be done BEFORE these new rollouts were forced upon us as choosing bonus/penalty SA's as well as an extra SA, and then having the SA's effectiveness changed on us RIGHT AFTER would be a giant screw job.

So were the SA's tested and/or adjusted? Or was that put on the back burner, will be done and "possibly" (yes I know it won't happen to everyone) screw over a huge margin of players a short way down the road?


I'm not just going to half ass the tests to rush them out, sorry. I will work on them whenever I have time and try and get them done as quickly as I can, but it's most likely going to be something that isn't done until season 16.
 
smittdog101
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Originally posted by Catch22
I'm not just going to half ass the tests to rush them out, sorry. I will work on them whenever I have time and try and get them done as quickly as I can, but it's most likely going to be something that isn't done until season 16.


Why not get some testers that ONLY TEST? They don't recruit, GM, Own or anything else. Wouldn't that make sense? I'm sure there are plenty of agents willing to give up some things to move this game along.

We are just going through this ridiculous cycle of exploit this....exploit that....every season. When will it end? Don't put it out there if it is not battle tested.
 
Thunder66
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Originally posted by smittdog101
Why not get some testers that ONLY TEST? They don't recruit, GM, Own or anything else. Wouldn't that make sense? I'm sure there are plenty of agents willing to give up some things to move this game along.


Yeah that would then PM their friends via email exposing the inner workings of the game and resulting in servergate2.0.

Would have to be paid employees that have not played the game before and never will be allowed to.
 
PP
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Originally posted by StoutOne DTD
Are there replays of Catch in Stride yet?


None that I'm aware of
 
smittdog101
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Originally posted by Thunder66
Yeah that would then PM their friends via email exposing the inner workings of the game and resulting in servergate2.0.

.


I'm sure that's already happening. Why not just expedite the process so we can get rid of the problems sooner. The quicker the info gets out, the quicker the issues go away. All of this stuff can easily be done by a few committed people, but everyone wants to Test, GM, Own and everything else.
Edited by smittdog101 on Mar 23, 2010 07:53:27
 
JTD
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What triggers the "Im Open" text? Just curious
Edited by JTD on Mar 23, 2010 15:17:54
Edited by JTD on Mar 23, 2010 10:38:45
 
islander1
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Originally posted by smittdog101
Originally posted by Catch22

I'm not just going to half ass the tests to rush them out, sorry. I will work on them whenever I have time and try and get them done as quickly as I can, but it's most likely going to be something that isn't done until season 16.


Why not get some testers that ONLY TEST? They don't recruit, GM, Own or anything else. Wouldn't that make sense? I'm sure there are plenty of agents willing to give up some things to move this game along.

We are just going through this ridiculous cycle of exploit this....exploit that....every season. When will it end? Don't put it out there if it is not battle tested.


it'll never end though. Every season something new gets overpowered, exploited, or somehow broken.

Do you actually expect one season the sim won't have this?
 
Tigerbait0307
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Originally posted by JTD
What triggers the "Im Open" text? Just curious


Pretty sure its only when the player is wide open or uncovered.
 
TrevJo
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Originally posted by PP
We may want to turn the extreme impact of CF down to about 3/4ths as severe as this...not make anything under worse case any less, just ceiling in at 75% of this
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2032&pbp_id=437400


I know PP said not to overreact, but I hate the stopping behavior when defenders are faked. Why can't they slow down instead? Friggin CB goes from about 20 speed to 0 in one tick. This has always bothered me with all types of fakes.
Edited by TrevJo on Mar 23, 2010 18:19:14
Edited by TrevJo on Mar 23, 2010 18:07:36
Edited by TrevJo on Mar 23, 2010 18:04:40
 
tragula
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Originally posted by TrevJo
Originally posted by PP

We may want to turn the extreme impact of CF down to about 3/4ths as severe as this...not make anything under worse case any less, just ceiling in at 75% of this
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2032&pbp_id=437400


Didn't read the thread, but I hate the stopping behavior when defenders are faked. Why can't they slow down instead? Friggin CB goes from about 20 speed to 0 in one tick. This has always bothered me with all types of fakes.


Agree, that is ugly.
The CB probably should take the wrong angle due to a fake, more then he stops or slows. In the example of the hand fake I would expect to see the CB take a inside angle as if he was trying to jump the pass. When the CB is behind the WR there is no reason he will be slowed down like that due to the fake.
 
TrevJo
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Originally posted by tragula
The CB probably should take the wrong angle due to a fake, more then he stops or slows. In the example of the hand fake I would expect to see the CB take a inside angle as if he was trying to jump the pass. When the CB is behind the WR there is no reason he will be slowed down like that due to the fake.


+1

Also, wasn't pump fake supposed to be toned down vs man coverage and made to work more against zone next season? That doesn't seem to have changed.
 
Staz
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Something I posted on the test server in regards to Catch fake:
Originally posted by Staz


Why would you catch fake?: The reason you fake the catch (which shouldn't happen terribly often) is because your defender is covering you tightly, and you need to "distract" him to gain separation. If you're running a route with a lot of "straight", like a slant, streak, deep post, etc. then using a catch fake isn't going to do a whole lot of good. The only time you WOULD use a catch fake on something like that, is if the QB threw a deep, lofty pass. Then, in that situation, you'd slow down, do a "catch fake", get the defender to look back and try to locate the ball, and then you'd take off and try to get underneath the pass.

The best time for a catch fake, though, is when you're on a route with a move, and you catch fake right before you make the move. For example: You're running a post, and a yard or two before the break in your route, you slow up, look back at the QB and act as if you're expecting the pass. If the defender bites, he'll react to it (if he's covering you in man, he'll look back and try to locate the ball, if he's playing off in zone, he'll step up, anticipating the pass). That's when you make your move, and gain a bit of separation. If the defender is playing man, a one move route like that won't gain you a whole lot of separation. The defender isn't going to stop, he isn't going to cut his speed in half, but he'll most likely slow up a step or two (think 85% of whatever speed he was just at). That gives the receiver an extra yard or so of separation, enough space for the QB to hit him.

While one move routes are nice, double move routes are even better. Things like Chair routes, stop n go, post-corner, corner-post, wheel routes, etc. The great thing about these is you run your route, you make the first break, and the defender is slightly behind you (catching up from the break) or on your inside hip (if he's playing man). You go for the catch fake, defender looks into the back field to locate the pass, and then you make your second move. Most likely, it's in a completely different direction than your first, which leaves the defender behind, trying to figure out where you went and having to catch up.

No intelligent receiver is going to pull a catch fake on a route like a curl, where it just wouldn't fool anybody. That, and a defender is only going to fall for a catch fake a few times. I saw catch fakes firing every other play, it seems, and any smart defender is going to say "alright, nope, i'm not falling for it" after the first few times.



tl;dr version
Things that should change:
- Defenders slow down a little, not a lot when falling for a catch fake.
- Receivers slow down a little when ATTEMPTING a catch fake, but are quicker to accelerate than the defender since they don't have to "locate the pass", that's where the separation comes from
- Receiver catch fake when wanting to make the defender slow down and become "distracted". This is best on a deep, lofty pass that the WR feels he can get under (even if faking a catch), right before the break in a route, and best when done before the 2nd break in a route.
-Receivers don't catch fake on short, quick routes (Hook, curls, slants,), generally not on crossing routes (ins, outs)
-Defenders less likely to fall for catch fake if done multiple times


 
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