Warrior General Games

I could go for

NFL Kickoff Distance, NCAA Touchback % and NFL Out-of-Bounds

Top-end distance definitely needs to be scaled down.
Height definitely needs to be scaled up.
Kickers should have a slider for kickoff height.

I like the idea of having kicks that can go out of bounds.
Kickers should have a slider for direction. Left to right, i.e. max left aiming for just inside the left pylon on the goal line. Obviously the kicker's accuracy would be more important for kickers aiming closer to the sideline.

Originally posted by Barnzie
A Matter of Physics

Kicking distance is all a matter of physics. The factors of force are mass and acceleration. The factors of kinetic energy are mass and velocity. Every kicker will have a similar mass in his foot, so the main variables in kicking distance are velocity and acceleration. The quicker that foot is moving the more force and energy can be transfered to the ball.

The second part of the equation is the transference of energy. How much of the foot's energy is transfered to the ball will depend on how well the foot makes contact with the ball. The better the contact the more energy is transfered during impact.

Kicking the Ball

The two factors are:
1. Footspeed, or power. This defines the potential distance of the ball.
2. Contact, or form and technique. The defines how well the ball actually travels.

Kicking power comes from explosive strength and dynamic flexibility.

Kickers with good technique should be able to consistently make good contact with the ball. Kickers with poor technique should be less consistent. On inaccurate kicks direction, trajectory, and velocity could all be affected. How badly they are affected should depend on the quality of the kick.

You can relate this to GLB to decide which attributes should be important. IMO the primary attributes should be strength and agility for power, and kicking and confidence for contact.

Max Distance

There should be a ceiling on the maximum distance a kicker may kick a ball, determined by his attributes and SAs. The kicker cannot kick the ball any further than this distance on field goals, except as a result of VAs.

On kickoffs kickers with the Booming Kick VA may kick it further, but the VA needs to be altered. Perhaps a +2% per level to max distance to give a 60 yard max distance kicker with 15 BK a 78 yard max kickoff distance, and a 65 yard kicker a max kickoff distance of 84.5 yards.

I think the formulas need to be reworked. To clear the crossbar on a 60 yard FG with a 40 degree trajectory a kicker needs to be able to kick the ball 65 yards. Take that as the range of an average pro level distance kicker, and 25 yards as the range of an average peewee kicker, and use that (or similar numbers) as a guide.

While I likely didn't need to quote the whole thing, I wanted to use this as an example of the sort of thinking I like.

I would take his breakdown of the factors of a kick, and translate these into the necessary attributes. And from there, maybe tweak it a bit more. Because a guy who is all power but no technique may be able to kick the ball really far, he'll only get those kicks every so often because he's going to hit the ball _wrong_ more often than not, and thus cause inaccurate kicks, kicks that veer off target, kicks that are too low or too high, etc.

So, If we take the kicking attributes to be Strength (For Power) Speed (For foot speed/momentum imparted to the ball), Kicking(Punting) for the Technique and Agility for being able to put all these parts together and do the same motion consistently. Then add in Vision for knowing where to put the kick and Confidence for being able to do this while a 250 pound guy is flying through the air screaming about how once he's done with you he's going to rape your puppy... and then we get the kick roll.

Present system rewards too much having just two attribute high. Strength and Kicking. You can exaggerate these attributes and be overly successful.

So, Combine into the roll a look at the various parts and reward people for being 'balanced' eg their Physical and Mental are working in harmony and so they are a well oiled kicking machine and penalise those who are perhaps overdeveloped in just one or two areas and deficient in others.

So, the Guy with lots of Strength and Kicking Will be capable of kicking the 85 or longer yard kick offs. Problem is, because he has so much strength and so much Kicking and so little agility and speed, he'll often kick that 85 yards off to the side and out of bounds, or he'll kick it too high so all that energy and power goes into sending it 85 yards high but only 15 yards downfield, etc.


Those are of course exaggerated results, but I think you would get the gist. The problem pretty much exists because people building kickers realised that 130+ kicking and 90+ strength = Automatic touchbacks and so often the kicker players are built with something approximating:

Originally posted by Acheivable Kicker with Boomer Archetype

Physical Attributes
Strength: 85 Speed: 28 Agility: 48 Jumping: 48 Stamina: 35 Vision: 48 Confidence: 85
Football Skills
Blocking: 10 Catching: 10 Tackling: 12 Throwing: 10 Carrying: 8 Kicking: 135 Punting: 8

Calm Nerves: 11 Big Boot: 15 Automatic: 15

Wrap Up Tackle: 6


Soccer Star: 15 Booming Kick: 15 Clutch: 15 Laces Out: 15

Which is silly. How many kickers should have 85 Strength? (Which BTW even with their 28 Speed allows them to make great tackles)

This guy should be capable of long kicks, but they should be very erratic, whereas a player with more balanced stats of those necessary to perform the role, should be a more consistent kicker who can net a good/fair distance with each kick that equates out to maybe 35-45% of all their kicks being touchbacks. (More than the NFL is OK with me because this game is not the NFL and lots of positions get exaggerated results, so its still a workable amount but not too high)

tbh, i havent seen too many touchbacks in some of my upper level teams with great kickers.

Originally posted by Enkidu98
How many kickers should have 85 Strength?

None. Which is why I don't like how much of a factor strength is in kickoff (or field goal) distance.

Originally posted by Enkidu98
How many kickers should have 85 Strength?

None. Which is why I don't like how much of a factor strength is in kickoff (or field goal) distance.Originally posted by ryan_grant-25
tbh, i havent seen too many touchbacks in some of my upper level teams with great kickers.

Really? A quick glance through your players and GMd teams found a lot of AAA teams, and three Pro teams. Among the three Pro teams, there was one team with a WR handling kickoffs. On the other two teams, in their last game, your team's kickers each kicked 5 touchbacks in 11 tries. That is too many imo. I wouldn't be surprised if it's not a big problem in AAA leagues, though.

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