Summary from "Team Demotion/Resets Rules" thread: http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=3800320
(*through page 27)
(*second post with quotes from pages 28-ish to 90)
(*third post with quotes to page 111)
Announcement: http://goallineblitz.com/game/announcement.pl?id=314
Updated Promotion / Demotion FAQ: http://goallineblitz.com/demotion_faq.html
Related discussion from test server "Idea for equipment/$ fix" - http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=3789390
Among updates to "Current Projects" in changelog: "- Figure out and work on new equipment and team facility system"
▬▬▬
WHO? WHEN?
Originally posted by Catch22
Originally posted by Melchisedec
So since it's not before season 15, if I demote this season, I'll be alright?
No. These rules are effective immediately. Stadium/Fan Support Deterioration will not start happening until season 15 however.
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Catch22
Originally posted by AirMcMVP
Originally posted by Ryiotgear
[...]sucks for all the teams that are resetting next season for archtype players
The new rules don't go into effect until Season 15...don't think it will affect teams dropping down to take advantage of archetypes.
The new rules for stadium/fan support deterioration don't go into effect until Season 15. Teams that request demotion for season 15 WILL have their stadium and cash reset to the level they are moving to (unless moving to AA).
Yeah, this. Everyone (specially since there will be plenty of new archetype teams) should start on the same page.
Also, as a bonus, this rule will allow teams who got in over their head (new owners usually) a way to reset, start over with some new money, and get it right.
Originally posted by Catch22
Originally posted by SawyerReywas
So none of this will affect any teams that dropped cap prior to this announcement with a full stadium and money in the bank in any way?
No, it won't be applied retroactively.Originally posted by Bort
No, it will not (except for maybe the stadium decay rules). It would be pretty hard to sort out who's who, even if we wanted to do something to existing teams.
Originally posted by Catch22
Originally posted by seirus
So if i dropped down to Level 14 this past season, have a full stadium, and will have a competitive roster in season 15, does my stadium start deterioiating in the offseason or the off season inbetween season 15-16. Just trying to figure out how many sections i will end up having to rebuild.
Deterioration only takes place if 1) you don't have 30 human players on your roster or 2) your team doesn't meet the minimum level requirements. This is determined during weeks 14-16 of the regular season by seeing if your team did not receive media revenue (which is received if you meet the above two criteria) those three weeks.
If you have a competitive roster in season 15 and are not requesting a demotion, these changes should not impact you.
▬▬▬
CLARIFICATION
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by reddogrw
[...]So what is the rule - I need 30 human players at the min level for that league or I need enough to qualify for media revenue?
Same minimums for media revenue, already in use.
Originally posted by Catch22
Originally posted by reddogrw
[...]in today's announcement the rule just stated 30 human players above level 36 (the minimum signing level for the uncapped leagues), but then you just said media revenue is the way to determine this so which is it?
It doesnt say 30 human players above level 36 - it's 30 human players or meeting the median level requirements for the level they are at (this varies depending on what level you are at).
Originally posted by Catch22
Originally posted by reddogrw
[...]so does my team need to:
1 - Have 30 human players on the team - see bolded part (obviously they must be above the existing min level to sign or have been on the team)
OR
2 - Meet the requirements to earn media money
please clarify
They are one and the same. The media requirements = the announcement requirements. We spelled it out to make it more clear for people rather than just saying "you must get media revenue for the last three weeks"
▬▬▬
LOOPHOLE?
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by pottsman
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by pottsman
I see an exploit that might need to get closed up...
Teams "overpromoting". For example, the "we won too many games and got moved up 2 caps to level 22 when my team is only level 17 on average, please demote us to 18 cap" people. Who do get moved down sometimes. If they know that that they are going to do this, and they have a good amount of cash in the bank...what's to stop them from giving all the players big bonuses in the last few days of the season, then demoting and having all the cash back?
If the EQ changes like discussed, they wouldn't really get anything out of it, since their stadium would get reset.
If cash has any use, then they will.
In the proposed new system, the player doesn't accumulate cash, since it is worthless to him. His salary amount is used to determine any effects on his morale. Since the cash then doesn't travel with the player, the team gets no benefit from loading him up.
Originally posted by Catch22
We can clarify the demotion requests to not allow those in instances where teams have done that - we review every demotion request manually, so we can review their team cash history and see if they have done something like that. Pretty easy to catch tbh.
Originally posted by Catch22
Originally posted by gbnk82
i belive what he i saying is say say a team is below there level and have 100+mill saved up..Whats to say they dont just give that cash to there players before they demote they then still technically have the money
If you demote, the players don't go with you. If you give all the money to the players to go to another team, that violates the cash farm rules and will be punished. If they want to give all their money to players who are going to many teams before they demote, that won't really be feasible once Bort implements the new EQ system.
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by reddogrw
which is why all these changes need to go in at one time together
I agree, but we'll do what we can. Better to let people know it is coming now than tell them 2 days before they're getting demoted.
▬▬▬
EQUIPMENT / FINANCES
Originally posted by moepoker
Please make it harder for teams to buy equipment next.Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by moepoker
Please make it free for players to buy equipment an add more team upgrade type stuff next.
fyp with most likely scenario
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by OBFuSCaTe
Excellent change.
Can't wait to see the EQ fix.
The system we are currently working on figuring out, proposed by a tester, and similar to some other ideas in suggestions revolves around the concept of removing the team->player money transfer via equipment, since that's the main thing collusion is based on, and instead have players directly pay for their EQ with the currency they have, and teams pay for more team-related options.
Think of it this way:
- Players have currency already: time, tokens, SP, morale, energy. Make eq and training cost based on that instead, and let players get EQ more easily. Players then are more in control of their destiny, instead of relying on a team, and have all the same options. The only thing salary really should do for them is keep their morale up and maybe buy some bling.
- Teams have cash as their currency. Let them use that to upgrade their facilities, advertise, and pay their players to play (not to make them vastly better via EQ).
It's a fairly major change from what we have now, but I have grown to really like the idea and I think doing things along those lines would really clean up the whole mess and make it more fun for everyone. We're trying to work out the numbers and the ideas on things to add, etc, currently.
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by wombat killer
Bort - you probably should have made some mention of the equipment change you are thinking about in the announcement or make another announcement.
Not anywhere near official, yet, tho. Might run into issues by the time we get to working through it all, etc.
It's pretty much the primary idea right now, though. We need to fix up the system in general somehow. It's just not very fun in the end.
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by OBFuSCaTe
[...]It will be very nice that teams finally have a chance to use their money for something of substance as opposed to EQ that can "leave" the team. One thing I hope does change with this new finance implementation is a more in depth finances page. If teams have more control over their money, let them also have a finance page that represents that control. Being able to view which section of seats were purchased, at how much. Which stadium construction, facilities, etc etc...
Good point on the finances page. Might be a good chance to revamp ticket/concession sales to work more realistically.
▬▬▬
COMMENTS
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by StiffarmSteve
Its going to be an interesting season 15 (and off season). I have a feeling a lot of teams are going CPU and a lot of free agent dots on the market at the lower levels.
Whew...
Yeah, though I don't mind having less teams/leagues in minors if they are mostly full of teams who are trying as opposed to cash farms and gutted "holding on to my cash" teams.
I think if we do this and fix the way equipment works (like I mentioned) it will go a long way to getting rid of a lot of the colluding and "rule-working" that goes on right now. That sort of stuff sounds like it doesn't affect anyone to the person who is doing it, but it really disenfranchises a lot of newer owners to see gutted teams in their league with $200M.
Originally posted by Catch22
Originally posted by Shayde
So the goal here is for us all to quit, right?
Just making sure.. that's the message I'm getting with the archetypes and the team destruction.
If it isn't, please enlighten.
Of course that's not the goal - the goal is to give every one a better experience. There are a lot of things that needed adjusted. ALG's and player development was one. Getting teams on a more level playing field was another. Anyone who thinks these changes are here to screw the average GLB user isn't looking at the big picture and is most likely looking at how it only impacts them personally.
Originally posted by Catch22
Originally posted by Bukowski
Originally posted by SCACE
Originally posted by Catch22
Originally posted by Shayde
Honestly.. I'll take all my cash and throw it out the window, but the STADIUM??!?!?!!?
I worked long and hard building it, sacrificed my own players to help build sections, and now I have to tear it all down?
Reprehensible.
And you don't see how having a full stadium is an inherent and huge advantage over other teams that are starting from scratch?
And you don't see how teams that already demoted and have a full stadium AND their cash is a huge advantage over other teams that are starting from scratch?
But it wasn't a rule back then.
You can't retroactively punish teams for something that wasn't even against the rules.
The farm team exploit was one thing, because that was actually against the rules, and even then they said that they're only going to use the most severe examples. This never was against the rules, so it would be pretty messed up to punish teams over something that wasn't wrong at the time.
I do but I also know it's not as easy as you think it is to figure out which teams to reset and which ones to not reset. It's also not my call on that one as it's Bort who would have to do all the work.
Edit to add - also what Bukowski said. It wasn't against the rules then so it'd be hard to punish someone for doing something that wasn't disallowed.Originally posted by DigitalDaggers
Originally posted by Guppy, Inc
its grandfathering that has caused so many exploits in the past. grandfathering teams with this will just cause people to look for exploits in attempts to level the playing field
people have been looking for exploits since season 1, day 1. no matter what we change/fix people will still look for exploits.
Originally posted by Bort
If you want to drop down and start over, competing with teams who have not had the same amount of time as you to gain that advantage, then yes.
Think about the perspective of a younger owner for a minute. You just finished 2 corners on your stadium, and have a nice bankroll of $8M in lv 22. You're feeling like you did pretty well, you're geared up to pay for your players and probably bring in some new recruits with some good signing bonuses. Then you look at the other teams in your league. One of them has $180M and a full stadium. You don't know him or his motivations, but you know he can easily poach all your recruits, fully equip all his players, and he has an advantage over you. You look at his history and see he played in a Pro league last season. Does this inspire you to continue playing, or does it make you say "this is dumb, I quit?" According to many people in our survey, it makes them not want to try at all.
Think about it. It's not just stadium sections. It's free cash. You don't have to pay for those sections again. That's an extra $20-30M you get free and clear over the other guy.
If the premise of your argument is simply "but it removes MY advantage specifically, but makes the playing field more level for everyone else" then you're actually arguing FOR the change. You want to start over? You start over.
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Shayde
We worked hard to build this. So you're saying those in it from the beginning don't deserve a slight advantage? People who have tested, and worked, and PAID for this suddenly have to lose everything?
If they are giving up and starting over, yes.
You don't get free SP for making a new player just because your old player retired. You start with 15 like everyone else.
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Shayde
Just to placate noobs? Let them out in all the work to get where I am. We've already run the marathon and you're putting them on the last 20 yards and are saying GO. Should there not be some payoff for all our hard work?
No, you're wanting to run a marathon against less experienced players and start yourself at the last 20 yards. Seriously, think about it from outside your own team bubble. You're mad that your stadium is going away if you decide to go it at a lower level. The 31 other owners in the league are mad that you're coming into their playground with a head start.
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by SCACE
The irony in this Bort is that you realize there is a problem, you guys have come up with a way to deal with it, but you refuse to apply to everyone equally.
When you make a major change like this, go full bore. If you want teams at every level to be on an even playing field to start under the new rules, reset all cash and stadiums to the presets listed earlier and let everyone compete on that playing field.
Only doing so for future demotions still leaves countless teams with maxed stadiums and massive war chests in the lower levels and sadly those teams will maintain that advantage while others (under the new rules) aren't able to exploit the system like they did.
I'm not at all saying don't implement the rule -- I think its way past due -- but it unfortunately doesn't cover everyone and that is a problem.
I understand, and it's sucky, but I feel like I can't in good conscience start resetting everyone's teams based on a brand new rule. We debated on adding the rule, hemmed and hawed, and that's our fault, not the owners'.
Some people are already annoyed by the new rule, even with warning. Retroactively enforcing it is not something they're going to stand for IMO.
Over time, those teams will weed out as they demote again or promote back to the higher ranks where it doesn't matter as much.
▬▬▬
Originally posted by Catch22
Originally posted by Dub J
This discussion has become stagnant anyway.
Yep, heading to bed. Pretty much what we expected - most people approve, those that don't have their reasons (not saying they are wrong either). In the long run though, this change is good for GLB. We'll never be able to please every one - we just need to do what's best for the long term future of the game and stick to it.
G'nite guys!
(*through page 27)
(*second post with quotes from pages 28-ish to 90)
(*third post with quotes to page 111)
Announcement: http://goallineblitz.com/game/announcement.pl?id=314
Updated Promotion / Demotion FAQ: http://goallineblitz.com/demotion_faq.html
Related discussion from test server "Idea for equipment/$ fix" - http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=3789390
Among updates to "Current Projects" in changelog: "- Figure out and work on new equipment and team facility system"
▬▬▬
WHO? WHEN?
Originally posted by Catch22
Originally posted by Melchisedec
So since it's not before season 15, if I demote this season, I'll be alright?
No. These rules are effective immediately. Stadium/Fan Support Deterioration will not start happening until season 15 however.
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Catch22
Originally posted by AirMcMVP
Originally posted by Ryiotgear
[...]sucks for all the teams that are resetting next season for archtype players
The new rules don't go into effect until Season 15...don't think it will affect teams dropping down to take advantage of archetypes.
The new rules for stadium/fan support deterioration don't go into effect until Season 15. Teams that request demotion for season 15 WILL have their stadium and cash reset to the level they are moving to (unless moving to AA).
Yeah, this. Everyone (specially since there will be plenty of new archetype teams) should start on the same page.
Also, as a bonus, this rule will allow teams who got in over their head (new owners usually) a way to reset, start over with some new money, and get it right.
Originally posted by Catch22
Originally posted by SawyerReywas
So none of this will affect any teams that dropped cap prior to this announcement with a full stadium and money in the bank in any way?
No, it won't be applied retroactively.Originally posted by Bort
No, it will not (except for maybe the stadium decay rules). It would be pretty hard to sort out who's who, even if we wanted to do something to existing teams.
Originally posted by Catch22
Originally posted by seirus
So if i dropped down to Level 14 this past season, have a full stadium, and will have a competitive roster in season 15, does my stadium start deterioiating in the offseason or the off season inbetween season 15-16. Just trying to figure out how many sections i will end up having to rebuild.
Deterioration only takes place if 1) you don't have 30 human players on your roster or 2) your team doesn't meet the minimum level requirements. This is determined during weeks 14-16 of the regular season by seeing if your team did not receive media revenue (which is received if you meet the above two criteria) those three weeks.
If you have a competitive roster in season 15 and are not requesting a demotion, these changes should not impact you.
▬▬▬
CLARIFICATION
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by reddogrw
[...]So what is the rule - I need 30 human players at the min level for that league or I need enough to qualify for media revenue?
Same minimums for media revenue, already in use.
Originally posted by Catch22
Originally posted by reddogrw
[...]in today's announcement the rule just stated 30 human players above level 36 (the minimum signing level for the uncapped leagues), but then you just said media revenue is the way to determine this so which is it?
It doesnt say 30 human players above level 36 - it's 30 human players or meeting the median level requirements for the level they are at (this varies depending on what level you are at).
Originally posted by Catch22
Originally posted by reddogrw
[...]so does my team need to:
1 - Have 30 human players on the team - see bolded part (obviously they must be above the existing min level to sign or have been on the team)
OR
2 - Meet the requirements to earn media money
please clarify
They are one and the same. The media requirements = the announcement requirements. We spelled it out to make it more clear for people rather than just saying "you must get media revenue for the last three weeks"
▬▬▬
LOOPHOLE?
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by pottsman
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by pottsman
I see an exploit that might need to get closed up...
Teams "overpromoting". For example, the "we won too many games and got moved up 2 caps to level 22 when my team is only level 17 on average, please demote us to 18 cap" people. Who do get moved down sometimes. If they know that that they are going to do this, and they have a good amount of cash in the bank...what's to stop them from giving all the players big bonuses in the last few days of the season, then demoting and having all the cash back?
If the EQ changes like discussed, they wouldn't really get anything out of it, since their stadium would get reset.
If cash has any use, then they will.
In the proposed new system, the player doesn't accumulate cash, since it is worthless to him. His salary amount is used to determine any effects on his morale. Since the cash then doesn't travel with the player, the team gets no benefit from loading him up.
Originally posted by Catch22
We can clarify the demotion requests to not allow those in instances where teams have done that - we review every demotion request manually, so we can review their team cash history and see if they have done something like that. Pretty easy to catch tbh.
Originally posted by Catch22
Originally posted by gbnk82
i belive what he i saying is say say a team is below there level and have 100+mill saved up..Whats to say they dont just give that cash to there players before they demote they then still technically have the money
If you demote, the players don't go with you. If you give all the money to the players to go to another team, that violates the cash farm rules and will be punished. If they want to give all their money to players who are going to many teams before they demote, that won't really be feasible once Bort implements the new EQ system.
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by reddogrw
which is why all these changes need to go in at one time together
I agree, but we'll do what we can. Better to let people know it is coming now than tell them 2 days before they're getting demoted.
▬▬▬
EQUIPMENT / FINANCES
Originally posted by moepoker
Please make it harder for teams to buy equipment next.Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by moepoker
Please make it free for players to buy equipment an add more team upgrade type stuff next.
fyp with most likely scenario
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by OBFuSCaTe
Excellent change.
Can't wait to see the EQ fix.
The system we are currently working on figuring out, proposed by a tester, and similar to some other ideas in suggestions revolves around the concept of removing the team->player money transfer via equipment, since that's the main thing collusion is based on, and instead have players directly pay for their EQ with the currency they have, and teams pay for more team-related options.
Think of it this way:
- Players have currency already: time, tokens, SP, morale, energy. Make eq and training cost based on that instead, and let players get EQ more easily. Players then are more in control of their destiny, instead of relying on a team, and have all the same options. The only thing salary really should do for them is keep their morale up and maybe buy some bling.
- Teams have cash as their currency. Let them use that to upgrade their facilities, advertise, and pay their players to play (not to make them vastly better via EQ).
It's a fairly major change from what we have now, but I have grown to really like the idea and I think doing things along those lines would really clean up the whole mess and make it more fun for everyone. We're trying to work out the numbers and the ideas on things to add, etc, currently.
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by wombat killer
Bort - you probably should have made some mention of the equipment change you are thinking about in the announcement or make another announcement.
Not anywhere near official, yet, tho. Might run into issues by the time we get to working through it all, etc.
It's pretty much the primary idea right now, though. We need to fix up the system in general somehow. It's just not very fun in the end.
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by OBFuSCaTe
[...]It will be very nice that teams finally have a chance to use their money for something of substance as opposed to EQ that can "leave" the team. One thing I hope does change with this new finance implementation is a more in depth finances page. If teams have more control over their money, let them also have a finance page that represents that control. Being able to view which section of seats were purchased, at how much. Which stadium construction, facilities, etc etc...
Good point on the finances page. Might be a good chance to revamp ticket/concession sales to work more realistically.
▬▬▬
COMMENTS
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by StiffarmSteve
Its going to be an interesting season 15 (and off season). I have a feeling a lot of teams are going CPU and a lot of free agent dots on the market at the lower levels.
Whew...
Yeah, though I don't mind having less teams/leagues in minors if they are mostly full of teams who are trying as opposed to cash farms and gutted "holding on to my cash" teams.
I think if we do this and fix the way equipment works (like I mentioned) it will go a long way to getting rid of a lot of the colluding and "rule-working" that goes on right now. That sort of stuff sounds like it doesn't affect anyone to the person who is doing it, but it really disenfranchises a lot of newer owners to see gutted teams in their league with $200M.
Originally posted by Catch22
Originally posted by Shayde
So the goal here is for us all to quit, right?
Just making sure.. that's the message I'm getting with the archetypes and the team destruction.
If it isn't, please enlighten.
Of course that's not the goal - the goal is to give every one a better experience. There are a lot of things that needed adjusted. ALG's and player development was one. Getting teams on a more level playing field was another. Anyone who thinks these changes are here to screw the average GLB user isn't looking at the big picture and is most likely looking at how it only impacts them personally.
Originally posted by Catch22
Originally posted by Bukowski
Originally posted by SCACE
Originally posted by Catch22
Originally posted by Shayde
Honestly.. I'll take all my cash and throw it out the window, but the STADIUM??!?!?!!?
I worked long and hard building it, sacrificed my own players to help build sections, and now I have to tear it all down?
Reprehensible.
And you don't see how having a full stadium is an inherent and huge advantage over other teams that are starting from scratch?
And you don't see how teams that already demoted and have a full stadium AND their cash is a huge advantage over other teams that are starting from scratch?
But it wasn't a rule back then.
You can't retroactively punish teams for something that wasn't even against the rules.
The farm team exploit was one thing, because that was actually against the rules, and even then they said that they're only going to use the most severe examples. This never was against the rules, so it would be pretty messed up to punish teams over something that wasn't wrong at the time.
I do but I also know it's not as easy as you think it is to figure out which teams to reset and which ones to not reset. It's also not my call on that one as it's Bort who would have to do all the work.
Edit to add - also what Bukowski said. It wasn't against the rules then so it'd be hard to punish someone for doing something that wasn't disallowed.Originally posted by DigitalDaggers
Originally posted by Guppy, Inc
its grandfathering that has caused so many exploits in the past. grandfathering teams with this will just cause people to look for exploits in attempts to level the playing field
people have been looking for exploits since season 1, day 1. no matter what we change/fix people will still look for exploits.
Originally posted by BortIf you want to drop down and start over, competing with teams who have not had the same amount of time as you to gain that advantage, then yes.
Think about the perspective of a younger owner for a minute. You just finished 2 corners on your stadium, and have a nice bankroll of $8M in lv 22. You're feeling like you did pretty well, you're geared up to pay for your players and probably bring in some new recruits with some good signing bonuses. Then you look at the other teams in your league. One of them has $180M and a full stadium. You don't know him or his motivations, but you know he can easily poach all your recruits, fully equip all his players, and he has an advantage over you. You look at his history and see he played in a Pro league last season. Does this inspire you to continue playing, or does it make you say "this is dumb, I quit?" According to many people in our survey, it makes them not want to try at all.
Think about it. It's not just stadium sections. It's free cash. You don't have to pay for those sections again. That's an extra $20-30M you get free and clear over the other guy.
If the premise of your argument is simply "but it removes MY advantage specifically, but makes the playing field more level for everyone else" then you're actually arguing FOR the change. You want to start over? You start over.
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Shayde
We worked hard to build this. So you're saying those in it from the beginning don't deserve a slight advantage? People who have tested, and worked, and PAID for this suddenly have to lose everything?
If they are giving up and starting over, yes.
You don't get free SP for making a new player just because your old player retired. You start with 15 like everyone else.
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Shayde
Just to placate noobs? Let them out in all the work to get where I am. We've already run the marathon and you're putting them on the last 20 yards and are saying GO. Should there not be some payoff for all our hard work?
No, you're wanting to run a marathon against less experienced players and start yourself at the last 20 yards. Seriously, think about it from outside your own team bubble. You're mad that your stadium is going away if you decide to go it at a lower level. The 31 other owners in the league are mad that you're coming into their playground with a head start.
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by SCACE
The irony in this Bort is that you realize there is a problem, you guys have come up with a way to deal with it, but you refuse to apply to everyone equally.
When you make a major change like this, go full bore. If you want teams at every level to be on an even playing field to start under the new rules, reset all cash and stadiums to the presets listed earlier and let everyone compete on that playing field.
Only doing so for future demotions still leaves countless teams with maxed stadiums and massive war chests in the lower levels and sadly those teams will maintain that advantage while others (under the new rules) aren't able to exploit the system like they did.
I'm not at all saying don't implement the rule -- I think its way past due -- but it unfortunately doesn't cover everyone and that is a problem.
I understand, and it's sucky, but I feel like I can't in good conscience start resetting everyone's teams based on a brand new rule. We debated on adding the rule, hemmed and hawed, and that's our fault, not the owners'.
Some people are already annoyed by the new rule, even with warning. Retroactively enforcing it is not something they're going to stand for IMO.
Over time, those teams will weed out as they demote again or promote back to the higher ranks where it doesn't matter as much.
▬▬▬
Originally posted by Catch22
Originally posted by Dub J
This discussion has become stagnant anyway.
Yep, heading to bed. Pretty much what we expected - most people approve, those that don't have their reasons (not saying they are wrong either). In the long run though, this change is good for GLB. We'll never be able to please every one - we just need to do what's best for the long term future of the game and stick to it.
G'nite guys!
Edited by turnit643 on Feb 25, 2010 16:26:21
Edited by turnit643 on Feb 24, 2010 15:28:10
