Question: by vorbis
yeah, this is great. i only wish it had been implemented 5 seasons ago. this might cause the retirement of several of my players. but players built from here on in will be more useful i think.
Originally posted by catch22
Make sure you read the bullet points after the archetypes - it might not be necessary to retire your players (but it is of course an option to do so)
Question: by David Stern
This is a really simple question, and I think I know the answer but can you clarify THE ALG for older players?
If I Have a 300 day old player, and I want no bonus or penalty for say a OT, Will he be +0% pass/run block based on sa's, if he chooses to not be jerked with in any way?
Originally posted by catch22
Older players will have an option to stay with the current system or select an archetype. All new players created will have to choose an archetype.
Question: by joshv12345
Sounds like a good idea, is the plan to start this next season?
Originally posted by catch22
That is the plan assuming the coding/testing goes well.
Question: by TxSteve
Will your archetype be listed somewhere on you player page? will that be public? (based on your tagging comments - I assume its a yes?)
Originally posted by catch22
Don't know. Want to start keeping track of unanswered questions for me? lol
Question: by Snakebite99
So if im understanding this correctly, the "bonus SAs" listed above are not the same as the bonus SA youre going to allow us to choose, right? Example, hard hitting LB has bonus SAs of Snarl and Monster hit, but we'd be able to choose any other SA we want, like SV, Wrap up, first step, etc?
Originally posted by catch22
Correct.
Question: by TxSteve
probably lots of questions - but first one that popped to mind - is there really a need for K and P archetypes?
Originally posted by catch22
Probably not but kickers need love too. There might be some people that want to be more strength focused as opposed to vision focused.
Question: by lockdown851
I honestly don't like the concept, let people build whatever they are going to build instead of going into archtypes. I was just logging on before bed for work, so I'll log on tomorrow to go more in depth.
Originally posted by catch22
I don't think you're understanding the concepts of the archetypes. This gives players MUCH more freedom and creativity in building players then the current player building system does.
Question: by Mat McBriar
Just want to remind everyone that nothing is set in stone.
Originally posted by catch22
I also want to remind everyone that it's mostly set in stone.
Question: by Bambam3376
But why would you if your going to get penalties
Originally posted by catch22
Because the archetype might fit your vision for your player and help it? There are bonuses to you know, not just penalties. And you also get two additional SA's for choosing an archetype.
Question: by B2ThaJ
Is there really not gonna be a poll on this?
Originally posted by catch22
Pretty sure that's what I said. Sorry to disappoint you.
Question: by tk_217
So i have level 5 guys, are they basically irrelevant now with the new system?
Originally posted by catch22
No, you'll be able to select an archetype for him at the beginning of next season.
Question: by TxSteve
I think people are over-analyzing in some ways...
as an example - the CB archetypes: Man Specialists; Zone Specialist; Hard Hitter; Combo...
if you choose "zone" - and build well - your CB will probably be VERY competent at Man to man - nothing says you are totally pigeonholing yourself - don't get so caught up in the label
Originally posted by catch22
Exactly. The archetypes are labels with specific ALG's/bonuses/penalties. You can very well pick an archetype and have your player do the exact opposite of what the archetype is labeled.
Question: by David Stern
No it wont.. Dcing is tedious bro. It will still be finding out every down/distance your opp runs play x/y/z, and you will need to still chart everything if you want to have the right defense on the field for 95% of the plays. Won't make that horrible job any easier, anyone saying it will isn't doin it right
Originally posted by catch22
It actually should make it somewhat easier though because you'll now be able to tag by archetype - so if you want to transport a archetype specific playcall, you can.
Question: by TxSteve
with so many options for players (and STOP) - do you foresee any roster size changes in the near future?
Originally posted by catch22
No. It'll most likely stay at 55.
Question: by chefsjg71
Fix the sim not the builds. Another determent from the fact that bugs can't be fixed and another way to make people think more is better.
Originally posted by catch22
By all means if you have sim issues, please post them in the Bugs forum. We take sim issues very seriously and will do everything we can to fix them. To say that we don't is a bit off imo.
Question: by notak bethay
I love the idea of special team SA's. You can actually build a special teams that can impact the game in a great way. Special team players could become an asset if used correctly. This is a great idea. It does kind of box some positions, but you have the main ones with plenty of options. It still allows for you to build how you like. You can make a fast speedy power back. It would essentially be a elusive back with great power back SA's. I can see the diversity you are talking about. It does suck a bit because I have made a ton of players that I will have to fix, however this could make the game pretty cool.
One serious question. Will this make Defensive game planning a one stop shop? Will you be able to just tag elusive backs, power backs, combo and have an automatic defense that goes in against those players? If so I can see people building complex defenses and just transfering them to teams without any game planning.
Originally posted by catch22
It should make coordinating easier, yes. I wouldn't say that it will make it automatic though.
Question: by ImTheScientist
WR Power
6'0" - 6'6", 205-235 Lbs
Major Agility Carrying Catching Strength (+.5)
Minor Confidence Speed Stamina Vision (+.25)
Bonus SA's - None
Penalty SA's - None
Imo Spin or a breaking tackle SA should be a Power WR's bonus.
Bonus SA: Spin
Originally posted by catch22
Spin is an elusive ability, not a power ability. So ummm no.
Question: by StinkCheese
catch shouldnt special teamers be 150 flex since they dont play as much i agree they should be 100 flex but 200 is alittle high for a dot to only see 15 plays per game?
Originally posted by catch22
A 100 flex player can still play special teams and a player with a STOP archetype can still play at their regular position.
Question: by kuaggie
not quite what I was asking.... what would happen to the SAs that we invested in that no longer "exist" for our position? would they be returned via SP or would they simply become whatever substitutes them in the tree?
Also would the ALGs be reverse engineered or only applied going forward?
Originally posted by catch22
SA's are still going to exist for every position - none of those are changing. You just need to be careful if you are going to select an archetype that you don't pick one where you have 10 invested in a SA that is getting a penalty.
Only applied going forward, no reverse engineering.
Question: by rockislandmike
Now *THAT* is an interesting idea. Let me pick the position, and then major/minor attributes for them. You'd definitely get some variation in "archetypes".
Originally posted by catch22
Discussed and shot down by Bort.
.
Question: by kuaggie
to the first one- are the points the ALG split up among all the attributes?
to the 2nd one- how would this be implemented exactly?
Originally posted by catch22
Yes, they are divided evenly between majors/minors (the number in parentheses is the gain for each of those at level 1)
It'll be implemented with a selection screen I imagine.
Question: by David Stern
The only thing I don't understand is "special teamer only" players...
Does this mean no centers/g/ot's are eligible to play special teams after s14?
Originally posted by catch22
No they can play ST's, they can't just choose the archetype.
Question: by Pwned IRL
Is this going to get voted on?
Originally posted by catch22
No.
Question: by TxSteve
did you consider adding some 'natural abilities'?
like maybe a 'hard hitter' LB gets a natural +5% force fumble (5% is made up - I'm thinking something meaningful but not overpowered)
man to man CB could get 5% INT
some things to further differentiate the archetypes beyond just the major/minor skills (which will certainly make a huge difference...bigger for some positions than others)
Originally posted by catch22
we won't be doing % increases - that's AEQ's purpose. We are going to be looking at adding a special SA for each archetype (as per the OP). After discussion on this has died down, I'll start working on that with a Suggestions post.
Question: by Jack Del Rio
when dealing with players a couple seasons old, could you also please run a script to also award us the difference in a flat bonus (or penalty, depending on if the old ALGs were higher than the new ALGs) of (level - 1) x (new ALG bonus - old ALG bonus)? or all that divided by 2 to make it a bit more fair?
it's a game of inches, man. 5+ major positions are going to be a bit inferior to their successors, while 3- major positions (mainly just K/P) are gonna have a slight advantage.
i don't know if it's worth the trouble. both the above idea, and this whole new system
Originally posted by catch22
That's not going to happen unfortunately. There will be a bit of a generational gap but it shouldn't be too bad with the options we have laid out for players.
Question: by BansheeTime
Swat Ball as a bonus for Speed DT? Why not Big Sack like it is for a Blitzing LB? Not that many DL enthusiasists invest into Big Sack, but I'm sure most would use it before touching Swat Ball.
Originally posted by catch22
Because most speed DT's don't get a lot of sacks but they do deflect a lot of passes at the line of scrimmage.
Question: by cbothe
As of right now i'd much rather not worry about player building and fix things in the actual game ai...we just got this new system to try out that could help make builds alot different and already we are changing it....I don't mind the new change, but switching to a whole brand new system I would hope i could withdraw flex if thats done. Thats not what i paid for and when i bought my flex it wasn't even mentioned in a future thing coming on glb.
Originally posted by catch22
You can keep your current players as is if you don't like the system. This is only for new players with an OPTION to choose it if you are a veteran player.
Question: by wchs63
Not a fan.. It will eventually make us choose the direction and there is no turning back or changing the build... Just another apporach to make us spend more money because a lot of people will butcher their players and want to start anew....
Originally posted by catch22
Yes because power backs all of the sudden become elusive backs halfway through their career and 300 pound run stuffing DE's all of a sudden become speed rushers. This will force people to be more focused on the types of builds they want. And there's nothing saying you can't choose a particular archetype and build your player differently within that archetype, you just need to be aware of how the gains/penalties/bonuses for that archetype work.
Question: by Nif
Why no O-Line combo option? The Defense all have one. Why only 200 flex point special teamers? Thanks and I'll take my answer off the air.
Originally posted by catch22
Because there was no combo option that we could come up with that would not have made it better than the two other choices (we discussed this one quite a bit).
Why only 200 flex point special teamers? Honestly, because if we allowed the players that were only 100 flex those would be the only ones ever made. Most positions are 200 flex anyway, so this allows for most players to get that archetype.
Question: by Furious_George
I love the idea, but will the success rate of the player be as random as it always has been?
Originally posted by catch22
It's a game based on a random number generator and probabilities, so the answer to that question will always be yes. There are things you can do to increase your chance of success though through player development.
Question: by TxSteve
Has there been any thought put into a major SA evaluation before this thing goes live? I still believe that the entire SA system could use a massive overhaul (a'la the VA overhaul a few seasons back).
As an example when I see that the DE/DT get either a bonus or penalty to "swat ball" I think to myself...so what...
Originally posted by catch22
Yes, we're going to be looking at balancing the SA's a bit to make them more effective and to have the bonuses/penalties to the archetypes be worthwhile.
Question: by ImTheScientist
So if Im a player this season, and I want a power WR, I can pick Power, and I will be awarded my ALGs that I missed out on in my first 14 lvls?
Originally posted by catch22
No. You'll get the ALG's from that point on, not retroactive applied.
Question: by Octowned
OK thanks - read through the thread to here and saw that discussion re-iterated.
The idea of like a pulling SPECIALIST o-line intrigued me is all. Built for pulling, downfield blocking, screens, etc. Could introduce speed into that without making an overpowered o-line, by majorly sacrificing strength/blocking.
Major: speed, agility, vision
Minor: strength, blocking, stamina or confidence
But OK, no suggestions on new/different archtypes Thanks!!
Originally posted by catch22
I guess that was more of a how many OL's are uber fast thing. Pass Blocking will allow you to do that one pretty well I think. Agility as a major and vision and speed as minors.
Question: by telencephalon
Until one of you guys figures out how to fix the division structure and the gutted/developing teams and the 255-0 scores, seriously what difference does this make?
Originally posted by catch22
Do you know how to fix it? I'm all ears - please pm the solution to me.
Question: by mikeandbrooke07
will we be told at least before the playoffs end if this will happen or not? that way owners can properly plan their team for next season
Originally posted by catch22
Assume it will happen - if for some reason it won't, I'll let everyone know the minute I find out.
Question: by bluesman845
Right now a DE can build the following sa's
Swat Ball...Wall...Strong Base...Diving Tackle...Monster Hit
First Step...Change Direction...Shed Block...Tunnel Vision...Big Sack
For a speed DE the bonus sa's are first step and tunnel vision and the penalty sa's are wall and strong base.
Will the other sa's like diving tackle, big sack etc still be available for the speed de's
Originally posted by catch22
All current SA's are still available, some will just get bonuses/penalties. You'll also be getting two bonus SA's (one that you can pick and one that will be specific to your archetype).
Question: by SCACE
I have to agree with a previous post about coordinating -- I don't think this change makes it much (if any) easier on the coordinators -- the back end (offense and defense AI creation and editing) needs a major rethink-overhaul -- I coordinated from S2 to S8 or 9 and finally just gave up -- I don't have the time, and countless others will say the same -- that part of the game is far too much like work when it should be fun and enjoyable.
Originally posted by catch22
I agree too and it's on my list of projects so it'll be addressed someday, not sure when though.
Question: by David Stern
What do you mean "coding it" coding the player creation process?
Or how he re codes how things work?
Originally posted by catch22
The creation process and the process for all the little nuances (SA's, refunds, 300 flex points to be used for player creation but are not refundable).
I'm surprised no one has said thanks for the 300 flex for player creation btw. I thought that was nice of us.
Question: by Octowned
I'm an o-line junkie, I'd just like to see some light response on these, even if it is "go away, no":
Was there (or could there be) discussion on differentiating the builds on the o-line?
Pretending the positions require the same attributes is silly.
We just got a pulling guard VA, the idea of first step being added... sounds like a run blocker to me... but run blocker has no speed gains still. Seems like a massive contradiction/oversight.
Originally posted by catch22
Ugh I hate to say it to you but "go away, no"
It was all discussed (almost to the point of insanity). We had a Combo OL build but just couldn't make it work without it being overpowered. There is still plenty of potential for OL diversity.
Question: by mikeandbrooke07
awesome. so is this pretty much a go for next season? in case some of us owners are thinking about starting over with this?
Originally posted by catch22
well that depends on Bort coding it and how testing of it goes, but this is the plan yes.
Question: by BengalDuck
Also, Power WR should have Stiff Arm, Power Thru, or LTS.
Originally posted by catch22
then choose that as your bonus SA.
Question: by bluesman845
1) Players created before the archetypes were implemented will be allowed a one time archetype selection. This is optional and you will only have until the end of the pre-season to do so. When you select the archetype, you will start getting the ALG's and SA bonuses/penalties and will be allowed to select the bonus SA.
It says here that if we select the one time archetype for a current player that when you select it you will start getting the AGL's for that player. Does that mean that the players entire build will change and he will get the new agl's for the entire build or will he only start getting the new agl's from the time we select it and on.
Also on the sa's players have 8 regular sa's as of now. Will we still have as many with the ones listed as bonus and penalty sa's and the rest just normal sa's.
Originally posted by catch22
Only get them from the time of the selection, no retroactive points applied. Not sure I understand your 2nd question.
Question: by SCACE
didn't see it answered -- any thought to allowing us to just lay out a player's SA's from a giant list -- maybe keep in the Bonus and Negative SA's in the list (which is 4 I guess) but let us choose the other 6 + our bonus?
The more options we have when starting a player, the more creative we can be with the player and the more variety.
Originally posted by catch22
Discussed - decided against.
Question: by F8n4tune
Wow then just do it now then ? Whats the point of waiting ?
Originally posted by catch22
We could have just rolled it out with no discussion like most changes have been implemented in the past. I'm actually trying to get the word out well ahead of time for a change so people are aware of it and can prepare. Novel concept I know.
Question: by volcomrj
needs either rushing QB or changes to scrambling QB
major speed and agility
Originally posted by catch22
Discussed - shot down for a multitude of reasons.
Question: by GrogMan
the height/weight restrictions as a choice for archetype are really troubling, as it has been a VERY recent addition of configurable height/weights...
I am on a team that slow built to prepare for s.15 DOMINATION, and we have an ENTIRE roster of players who were created just before heights and weights could be selected on build start. Many of our guys were started with the old ideas of height/weight distribution on random rolls, and now we are suddenly presented with "holes" in our overall build plan because some of our players are the incorrect SIZE to choose the archetype for the roles they have built to...
I posted an example of my DE, who was created as a combo DE, at 250 LB, but the restrictions imposed by this plan do not let me select any archetype except speed.
I also have a C who weighs 327, and I cannot select anything except RUN blocker as an archetype.
This problem runs throughout MANY of the players on our team, and through no fault of our agents, they are prevented from selecting certain roles...
Can we see a lossening of the height/weight restrictions on archetypes for players created before s.14?
Our team has a a good amount of time invested in our build plan, but the players are NOT so old that retirement is an option...
Originally posted by catch22
The restrictions will just be for newly created players, not old ones. You'll be able to select an archetype outside of the restrictions if you are not a newly created player.
Question: by volcomrj
needs either rushing QB or changes to scrambling QB
major speed and agility
Originally posted by catch22
Discussed - shot down for a multitude of reasons.
Question: by Kayoh
Just one thing, is there a reason that Stamina is a minor for the Run Blocker and Speed is not? The extra Strength that the Run Blocker makes Stamina even less important to that guy than the Pass Blocker, and the Pass Blocker doesn't have Stamina as a minor, so it's a bit superfluous for the Run Blocker to have it. Speed is important to run blocking because if you manage to pancake the first man you need to be able to get to the second level.
Originally posted by catch22
Yes, it's because if you had Speed as a minor to Run Blocker it would pretty much eliminate any reason to choose Pass Blocker. We looked at a lot of factors when coming up with these, including how they compared to the other archetypes. You can still train and put point in speeds as a Run Blocker, you're just not getting an ALG for it.
Question: by Brutus Buckeye
I do think that custom slots for almost every position will be needed now to be able to take full advantage.
Originally posted by catch22
I asked Bort about that a couple weeks ago - NGTH.
Question: by neoliminal
♥ Oh, then please ignore my previous comments. ♥
Originally posted by catch22
We are going to be taking suggestions for the Custom SA for each archetype though. I'll be posting info on that tomorrow in the Suggestions forum, so by all means take a look at it and make suggestions.
ok let me reiterate something.
We're not taking suggestions to changing or adding new archetypes. I'll go add that to the OP. What you see here is what you're getting.
Question: by odg62
this sounds great, wish it had happened earlier
not reading through 21 pages but 2 things....
260 pound QBs? If their not statues i sure hope they dont break sacks like PBs break tackles
and for the bonus SA's, say i build a zone FS, super vision is already one of his SA's, so does he start with like a +2 in SV or something? How exactly would that work?
Originally posted by catch22
Mat did the height/weight ranges. He pulled data from somewhere.
Question: by neoliminal
It doesn't make sense for a power back to have First Step either...but you're letting me take that.
Originally posted by catch22
Ummm.
HB Power
5'11" - 6'4", 210-260 Lbs
Major Agility Carrying Confidence Strength (+.5)
Minor Catching Speed Stamina Vision (+.25)
Bonus SA's - Lower Shoulder, Power Thru
Penalty SA's - First Step, Spin
Question: by OBFuSCaTe
I like this idea and look forward to the implementation. I am assuming if there aren't any issues with testing, the implementation will begin next season. Question: Does that mean the current player creation will no longer be available starting next season, or when?
Originally posted by catch22
When the new system rolls out it will replace the current creation system.
Question: by neoliminal
For my "bonus" SA, may I choose a penalty SA to remove the penalty?
Originally posted by catch22
No. The penalties are there for a reason. It doesn't make sense for a power back to have elusive back abilities, so we are discouraging taking those SA's.
Question: by crd521
Just saw a need for a disclaimer here: I don't know Catch22, or whoever his previous agent was because he was probably way before my time, so I don't intend to come off as defending Catch22, or trying to sell this idea to anybody. Not telling anyone else to trust him or the group who came up with this, just saying that I trust that the real idea behind this idea is to improve the game. My point was basically just a vote of confidence for the idea in general, and was saying I am glad this discussion is happening, in order to polish it up and make it workable whenever they do decide to implement it. I totally understand some of the points of those who do not support this idea, many have merit, and with any luck these issues will be taken into account before this is finalized.
Originally posted by catch22
http://goallineblitz.com/game/home.pl?user_id=11685 = Catch22
I was probably among the top 100 customers here in terms of dollars spent. I definitely have the players core interests at the root of my decision making processes.
Question: by blazzinken
#3, I agree 100%....No one is going to make a pass blocking lineman besides maybe at LOT..and maybe at LG...but I doubt it.
Originally posted by catch22
Are you sure about that. Ask Octowned what he thinks now.
Question: by punkaweedus
Catch22 -- Please explain how this idea is going to create LESS cookie cutter builds. From what I've read in this thread, especially with the bonuses/penalties based on build type selected at player creation, it will actually force agents into selecting certain skills/attributes over others because of the penalties. Sure you COULD accept the penalty and dump points into that skill, but you'd be stupid do to so. This is especially the case with SAs. If I build an elusive HB and dump enough SPs to get 10 in Power Thru, I should have 10 in Power Thru... not be penalized to only 8. In fact it sounds like you're penalizing me for NOT having a cookie cutter elusive HB build.
IMO this player development change is limiting builds (because of attribute bonuses/penalties) rather than allowing user creativity to do whatever they want.
I will say that I do like the idea of allowing an additional SA outside of the two standard trees. This is huge for LBs especially, as the SA trees suck. I'd love to see Superior Vision as a standard SA for LBs.
Originally posted by catch22
See the excellent quote at the end of the OP.
Question: by Octowned
This (regarding blocking TE turning into a receiving TE) just made me realize that having DCs tag based on archtype will be a MASSIVE FAIL. Building blocking FBs to run, power backs to catch, blocking TEs to run deep balls, etc., will totally exploit the tagging system, and quite easily at that. The ALGs aren't so unbalanced as to prevent these crossover builds from trying to trick the system.
Please keep that in mind
Originally posted by catch22
It'll just be a tagging option, not the sole means for tagging. You'll still have the current tags.
Question: by Octowned
If SAs over 10 count as "fractions", is the bonus applied BEFORE that fraction, or after?
What I mean is, the sim takes your SA value and plugs it into a formula. When you take an SA to 15, it uses, for example, 13 in that formula. Whereas at 10, it just uses 10.
If these +20% take 10 to 12, does the formula use 12 (as if 12 were your base), or plug 12 into the formula? As if you actually had 14 or something like that.
I'm pretty sure I nailed my understanding of how SAs over 10 work, and maybe this hasn't been thought of yet - basically the question is - does the bonus apply before or after that "over 10 check" is performed?
Originally posted by catch22
I'm not the one coding it so I can't really give you a definite answer but the way it's supposed to work is to look at the final SA score and add/deduct the bonus/penalty based on whatever that score is.
Question: by Seric
Could you give me a little more information on how this works? You say if your player is <120 days old as of the first day after the rollover into the new season, you get more back. Then yough have 1-40 days old, 41-80 days old, 81-120 days old. All of which are lower the 120 not higher than. Also as you get older, you get less back. I'd think it would make more sense to have it the other way as there is more invested in the older players vs the newer players. By the way this looks, 11 of my players won't be able to do this, 4 of them will be at 119 days old, 1 will be at 107 days old, and the rest will be either just under 100 or lower. So I'd only be able to use this for 14 of my players by my understanding.
I probably have this wrong so let me know.
Originally posted by catch22
I'm not sure what your question is. We're giving more to younger players because they are the ones most directly impacted by the change. The older you are the more of a level gap there is and the less of an impact you are experiencing. We could have not returned anything but thought with the massive overhaul that we'd at least try and do a little something for people that had built a player in the last three seasons and decided they wanted to start over (which you completely don't have to do, it's just an option).
Question: by Octowned
If archtype specific SAs are added, will they be excluded from the AEQ store?
Speaking of the AEQ store, when will "Hands" be added back to the options of rollable SAs? I've asked this for like 6 seasons now, lol
Originally posted by catch22
Yea, they would be excluded from AEQ.
Question: by cubsluver22
This whole idea is gonna further split the gap between the good and the bad. Sure I can plan this whole deal out to a tee and have my team ready. What's gonna happen though is the competition is gonna get even worse than it already is. This whole idea sounds good upfront but the underlying fact is its gonna involve team staff to work/plan that much harder. The game is turning into a job for players like me who enjoy owning a team. Great Staff is already hard to find for most and I'm sure this will further worsen that.
The exploits of this new system will be sought after and found. Then support will spend all their time on nerfing them instead of working on things that truly need to be fixed with the sim.
Sorry guys but it just seems to me that were getting to a point where 1 little problem is being turned into an over-compensated bigger problem every time we turn around. I spend close to 20k flex a season and its getting to where I don't wanna spend any!
Originally posted by catch22
I actually think it'll narrow the gap not make it wider. Now people that build crappy players will have ALG's that make sense for their position for the most part which isn't the case now. The worst players will be better ones under this system.
Question: by jdros13
bonus SA - you have 8 in it, but it has a hidden bonus that makes it like you have 10
penalty SA - you have 10 in it, but it has a hidden penalty that makes it like you have 8
edit: I don't know if that is what is actually is, but that's the idea.
Originally posted by catch22
That's the general premise behind it, yes.
Question: by footballisgod
Players that have already been created who are choosing an archetype don't have to follow the height/weight requirements from what I understand.
Originally posted by catch22
This is correct, just newly created players.
Question: by Saris
Also any thoughts on Archetype specific VA's? This might fix some issues such as the previously mentioned combo HB's being better at power than Power HB's are.
Originally posted by catch22
There will be an archetype specific SA (see OP). Going to start discussion on that tomorrow in Suggestions.
Question: by B-T-A
What about the Safety Position having the Returner Archetype, I could easily name 5 FS's that have returned kicks on a consistent basis in the NFL in the last 5 years.
Originally posted by catch22
I could agree with that one (not sure why we didn't include them tbh, brain dump I guess)
Question: by beenlurken
Why not make them 100 FP?
Originally posted by catch22
Because they can still play other positions? (even with crappy attributes that don't match their position)
A suggestion to have a new position "STOP" and have that player be 100 flex wouldn't be a terrible suggestion.
Question: by beenlurken
I couldnt agree more... hence the reason why I said bort was doing it for money
Originally posted by catch22
Bort had very little to do with this plan other than wanting it to get done and giving me the go ahead to start working on it and signing off on final approval. The only 200 flex point player for STOP was my idea. I'm salaried, I don't get any money from flex sales. There were other reasons for that choice.
I have no problem removing the STOP archetype. It wasn't there on the initial list but was added after discussion. That would be the one suggestion I'm more than happy to live with.
I think Guppy is asking why FB's can't have the returner archetype.
I tell you what, if you can name 5 fullbacks that have returned kicks on a consistent basis in the the NFL in the last 20 years, I'll let them choose the archetype.
Question: by FBGProfessor
Am I the only one who thinks Catch22 is DD in disguise?
Originally posted by catch22
I'm WAY too nice to be DD.
Question: by footballisgod
Oh, that was just because Catch was looking for a little love among all the hate being spewed. A preemptive thanks for the eventual flex. lol
Originally posted by catch22
well most of the hate is coming from 10 people so I don't really let that bother me. I'm very confident that once this system rolls out and people are using it that they'll love it. There will always be people that don't like something, especially on the Internet. This was a well thought out and discussed plan - it wasn't something we just threw together in one day. If you've thought about it, we probably discussed its merits.
Question: by chief c
Well, I gotta admit. I've been reading this post off and on for over an hour now
and you guys have explained it about as well as Obama explained nationalizing health care
Originally posted by catch22
What would you like explained? The OP covers most of it in depth but I'll be more than glad to explain something you don't understand to you.
Question: by Octowned
Any thought to spreading the influence of casual style leagues, but using archtype based AIs?
Basically make the AI simpler... Pre-set packages called long pass, medium pass, short run, etc., the obvious stuff, then use basic settings to work the AI from there, with the understanding that the AI will use your packages as the backbone.
The playbook selections could be used by selecting RB: (drop down for archtypes on your team). So this medium-styled OC system would allow specialized play calling, etc., without the burden of massive AI structures. Sounds like a much more user friendly but still flexible environment.
I think cookie-cutter shelled AIs are the way to go. Allow quarter or down specific basic %s, a few basic package selections, and incorporate archtypes smartly.
On the defensive side, allow customization of defensive plays and packages, and keep the "tag the archtype" concept, but again force plays into specific packages.
Originally posted by catch22
One of my projects is to create an intermediate league, something that is between casual and the current regular leagues - it's a lot like what you outlined above.
Question: by psychonathan
idk if you already touched on this subject, but will we be able to reset the penalty SA's on our players?
Originally posted by catch22
No. Those are fixed per archetype.
Question: by czman
There was an alpha stage to this game with many plenty of players and Bort still need not get the natural level gains correct.
This is the biggest thing to happen to GLB.
If it done correctly it will make balancing the game very easy. If it is rolled out to soon and done incorrectly, it might make things worse.
Why is everyone in such a hurry. What do we as a player base gain by getting a product that is not tested fully.
I took about 3-5 seasons with thousands of players to figure out the best way to build and find loopholes in the natural level gains. Why do we think that a dozen people can do it in 40 days? I know we have a better knowledge base a group now but that does not mean that proper testing can be done in time.
I can promise you that there are going to be huge problems if this is rolled out as suggested. After looking at it for about 10 minutes I found a few things that are going to cause huge problems, unless there are major changes done. If there are major sim changes the changes will need to be tested too. Which leads me back to my primary point; there is too much that needs to be tested to roll this out too soon.
For once can GLB try and take a page for blizzard or bioware and push out changes when they are ready .
Originally posted by catch22
By all means if you see something unbalanced, please point it out. While I said I wouldn't take suggestions, I am more than welcome to hear about any potential game/balance issues:
This is a huge game changing system and while we've tried to address everything, it is possible we missed something - this is why we're opening it up for discussion now rather than just introducing the improvement. However, we are not taking suggestions to changing archetypes or adding new ones. If you see an unbalanced archetype, by all means bring it up and we'll look at it.
Question: by The Avenger
1) Players created before the archetypes were implemented will be allowed a one time archetype selection. This is optional and you will only have until the end of the pre-season to do so. When you select the archetype, you will start getting the ALG's and SA bonuses/penalties and will be allowed to select the bonus SA. The height/weight restrictions are only for newly created players so you do not need to worry about those when choosing your archetype (if you are not a newly created player).
3 questions:
1. Is there any cost to us using BT's or FP's to make this switch to archetype?
2. Will the sim support normal game action with non-archs and new archetypes on the field at the same time? (will we see new exploits untested between these interactions?)
3. What happens to pre-invested SA's in our builds if we make this switch and now there are bonuses and penalties to them?
Originally posted by catch22
1. No cost. You select which archetype you want and from then on you will get the benefits/penalties associated with it.
2. It should - still needs to be tested but I can't see that being a problem.
3. You will get the bonus or penalty applied to them, which is why you should be careful selecting your archetype since it's a permanent choice.
Question: by chefsjg71
Alrighty, I'm sold then. I could handle starting over with the time aspect as I've had fun. Got very solid agents and I'm also trying to look out for their expense as well if we considered restarting a team in its 5th season. Catch 22, I think you've been great on the forums and I see you bridging the gap between admin and agent. Thanks..
Originally posted by catch22
No problem chefs, thanks for discussing it in a calm and rational manner.
Question: by BansheeTime
Turn the Shoulder as a penalized SA would be a bit of a contradiction, imo, too.
Originally posted by catch22
Yep and I actually agree with that one - we didn't take into account the VA. Will figure out a different penalty. That's the type of suggestion I will take.
Question: by monsterkill
new archetype-specific SAs? should probably mention that in the OP.
Originally posted by catch22
It is.
Question: by cubsluver22
That's another statement I see that flies around more and more Everyday. Not gonna make every customer happy! Looks to me more customers are displeased with this idea than pleased! Again some things needed to be tweaked not over hauled!
Originally posted by catch22
You seriously think that? I've seen 10-15 people not like the idea at most, it's just those 10-15 people are posting over and over again.
Question: by chefsjg71
Those of us that understand its a RPG as well understand that the benefit of having a superior player is in the percentage increases that the rolls will go your way. How is it not more beneficial to not just reroll a team as opposed to trading them into the new archetype players. Notice I said beneficial and you said basically you don't have to. Sort of a big difference there.. Being that the auto leveling is changing, you would benefit from scraping and starting over. The cost of doing so if what a lot of us are having the problem with. Not the new system I'm thinking....
Originally posted by catch22
There is a bigger return if you do want to start over. You'd be getting back more than the normal 70% that a player normally gets. We tried to account for this at least somewhat.
Question: by reddogrw
so basically, I'll never be able to get a LB with a couple of pieces of SV - which really sucks since their SA trees are horrible
or a CB KR/PR with 2 pieces of Spin
I think this decision needs to be revisited, unless I am not reading things correctly
Originally posted by catch22
Ummm no you can get AEQ with SV. This has nothing to do with the current AEQ.
For example, let's say we make a Scrambling Passer Custom SA - it'll be something like "Runs Fast" - THIS SA would not be available through AEQ, all the other ones would still be.
Question: by BansheeTime
Regarding the Blitzing LB, is there any logic go adding Jumping as a major other than the fact that adding Strength or Vision would be too OP?
Originally posted by catch22
Nope that was pretty much it - as said some of the choices were too balance the archetypes between the position.
Question: by reddogrw
can you elaborate on this
if SA's aren't in an archtype, they won't ever be in your store?
or did I miss something here
Originally posted by catch22
We're going to be doing a archetype specific SA that will only be available for that archetype.
Question: by FBGProfessor
To be honest, this attitude is what reminds of DD (and I am not convinced that you have another GLB identity as DD could have many). I confess that as I read what other people write in here I am understanding this better and I am not as negative as I was at first. But your arrogant and condescending attitude really is not a good way to sell the idea. This post is another example of it. Of course Bort can do whatever he wants as he owns this game. But I stopped buying Flex when it became clear to me that as a customer I wasn't respected. The way this is being introduced and your attitude that really you aren't interested in taking suggestions to improve doesn't make feel like things are any different. I'll keep playing with my existing flex and waiting to see if the customer service improves. One can hope...
Originally posted by catch22
If you really think I don't respect customers or try and help them, you haven't been paying attention. There was a reason for not taking suggestions - because then the whole concept would become one giant suggestions thread and that's not what the purpose of this thread is.
Making customers happy is my number one priority but if there is one thing I know as gospel it is that I will never make every customer happy. I'm more than happy to talk with anyone and everyone about their issues though but sometimes you have to be firm about things and say no to get things done.
Question: by cubsluver22
I've already spent well over 100 dollars this season! I will have to buy more flex b4 it's over. I should get to throw out my opinion/suggestion! I spent two seasons planning out a team, only to have to redo it all over again this ffseason! I will say this again, its getting to be that when a problem arises instead of tweaking it a bit, the problem is being overcompensated for when it gets fixed. That overcompensation is creating that many more problems.
Yes this deal has alot well thought out ideas but its gonna open up another huge can of worms that alot of us just don't think is worth the gain of this fix.
Originally posted by catch22
Why do you have to redo it? You really don't.
Question: by Kircdrb
Then why even ask for opinions? Too humor us? Did you learn that in customer satisfaction class?
Just make a post saying this is how it's going to be. That's how it's always been.
Originally posted by catch22
I never asked for opinions. This is a discussion thread, not a suggestion thread. I'm more than happy to listen to your opinion and answer your questions, but this isn't about trying to change the archetypes plan and the OP is pretty clear on that (I don't think anyone reads the OP from the sounds of it).
Question: by cubsluver22
That's the kinda attitude that's gonna run paying customers like myself off! This is supposed to be about the customer and getting them to spend money! I've noticed a increase in this type of attitude. Wander how long a restaurant would run if they told you their menu is changing pay for it and eat it or go away!
Originally posted by catch22
My apologies - it's stated quite clearly in the OP that this is a discussion thread, not a suggestions thread. I've also stated at least five times that we would not be taking a poll or voting on this. I was being funny and it obviously wasn't to you. Sorry...
Question: by Saris
How set in stone is this btw? It would help to know in order to adjust our build plans over the course of this season to the new ALG's.
Originally posted by catch22
Pretty set. Bort might make a change or two when coding the project but for the most part what you see is what you are going to get.
Question: by footballisgod
What would the major/minor be? How would it not be too overpowered in the long run? I think every combination you come up with makes it significantly stronger than the other two options. So now people have to choose.
Originally posted by catch22
this was precisely why there is no Combo OL.
Question: by digitalspirit
Maybe you haven't done a good enough job convincing us otherwise.
Originally posted by catch22
It's a pretty simple concept. Read the OP.
Now when you build a player you have NO choices as to what ALG's you use. With this system, you will have multiple choices PLUS a bonus SA PLUS a archetype specific SA. Way more options than we currently have.
Question: by BlakeDawg
lets put this to a vote!!!
Originally posted by catch22
all these people thinking this leads to more cookie cutter builds are so far off it's funny. It's WAY less cookie cutter than the current player development system.
yeah, this is great. i only wish it had been implemented 5 seasons ago. this might cause the retirement of several of my players. but players built from here on in will be more useful i think.
Originally posted by catch22
Make sure you read the bullet points after the archetypes - it might not be necessary to retire your players (but it is of course an option to do so)
Question: by David Stern
This is a really simple question, and I think I know the answer but can you clarify THE ALG for older players?
If I Have a 300 day old player, and I want no bonus or penalty for say a OT, Will he be +0% pass/run block based on sa's, if he chooses to not be jerked with in any way?
Originally posted by catch22
Older players will have an option to stay with the current system or select an archetype. All new players created will have to choose an archetype.
Question: by joshv12345
Sounds like a good idea, is the plan to start this next season?
Originally posted by catch22
That is the plan assuming the coding/testing goes well.
Question: by TxSteve
Will your archetype be listed somewhere on you player page? will that be public? (based on your tagging comments - I assume its a yes?)
Originally posted by catch22
Don't know. Want to start keeping track of unanswered questions for me? lol
Question: by Snakebite99
So if im understanding this correctly, the "bonus SAs" listed above are not the same as the bonus SA youre going to allow us to choose, right? Example, hard hitting LB has bonus SAs of Snarl and Monster hit, but we'd be able to choose any other SA we want, like SV, Wrap up, first step, etc?
Originally posted by catch22
Correct.
Question: by TxSteve
probably lots of questions - but first one that popped to mind - is there really a need for K and P archetypes?
Originally posted by catch22
Probably not but kickers need love too. There might be some people that want to be more strength focused as opposed to vision focused.
Question: by lockdown851
I honestly don't like the concept, let people build whatever they are going to build instead of going into archtypes. I was just logging on before bed for work, so I'll log on tomorrow to go more in depth.
Originally posted by catch22
I don't think you're understanding the concepts of the archetypes. This gives players MUCH more freedom and creativity in building players then the current player building system does.
Question: by Mat McBriar
Just want to remind everyone that nothing is set in stone.
Originally posted by catch22
I also want to remind everyone that it's mostly set in stone.
Question: by Bambam3376
But why would you if your going to get penalties
Originally posted by catch22
Because the archetype might fit your vision for your player and help it? There are bonuses to you know, not just penalties. And you also get two additional SA's for choosing an archetype.
Question: by B2ThaJ
Is there really not gonna be a poll on this?
Originally posted by catch22
Pretty sure that's what I said. Sorry to disappoint you.
Question: by tk_217
So i have level 5 guys, are they basically irrelevant now with the new system?
Originally posted by catch22
No, you'll be able to select an archetype for him at the beginning of next season.
Question: by TxSteve
I think people are over-analyzing in some ways...
as an example - the CB archetypes: Man Specialists; Zone Specialist; Hard Hitter; Combo...
if you choose "zone" - and build well - your CB will probably be VERY competent at Man to man - nothing says you are totally pigeonholing yourself - don't get so caught up in the label
Originally posted by catch22
Exactly. The archetypes are labels with specific ALG's/bonuses/penalties. You can very well pick an archetype and have your player do the exact opposite of what the archetype is labeled.
Question: by David Stern
No it wont.. Dcing is tedious bro. It will still be finding out every down/distance your opp runs play x/y/z, and you will need to still chart everything if you want to have the right defense on the field for 95% of the plays. Won't make that horrible job any easier, anyone saying it will isn't doin it right
Originally posted by catch22
It actually should make it somewhat easier though because you'll now be able to tag by archetype - so if you want to transport a archetype specific playcall, you can.
Question: by TxSteve
with so many options for players (and STOP) - do you foresee any roster size changes in the near future?
Originally posted by catch22
No. It'll most likely stay at 55.
Question: by chefsjg71
Fix the sim not the builds. Another determent from the fact that bugs can't be fixed and another way to make people think more is better.
Originally posted by catch22
By all means if you have sim issues, please post them in the Bugs forum. We take sim issues very seriously and will do everything we can to fix them. To say that we don't is a bit off imo.
Question: by notak bethay
I love the idea of special team SA's. You can actually build a special teams that can impact the game in a great way. Special team players could become an asset if used correctly. This is a great idea. It does kind of box some positions, but you have the main ones with plenty of options. It still allows for you to build how you like. You can make a fast speedy power back. It would essentially be a elusive back with great power back SA's. I can see the diversity you are talking about. It does suck a bit because I have made a ton of players that I will have to fix, however this could make the game pretty cool.
One serious question. Will this make Defensive game planning a one stop shop? Will you be able to just tag elusive backs, power backs, combo and have an automatic defense that goes in against those players? If so I can see people building complex defenses and just transfering them to teams without any game planning.
Originally posted by catch22
It should make coordinating easier, yes. I wouldn't say that it will make it automatic though.
Question: by ImTheScientist
WR Power
6'0" - 6'6", 205-235 Lbs
Major Agility Carrying Catching Strength (+.5)
Minor Confidence Speed Stamina Vision (+.25)
Bonus SA's - None
Penalty SA's - None
Imo Spin or a breaking tackle SA should be a Power WR's bonus.
Bonus SA: Spin
Originally posted by catch22
Spin is an elusive ability, not a power ability. So ummm no.
Question: by StinkCheese
catch shouldnt special teamers be 150 flex since they dont play as much i agree they should be 100 flex but 200 is alittle high for a dot to only see 15 plays per game?
Originally posted by catch22
A 100 flex player can still play special teams and a player with a STOP archetype can still play at their regular position.
Question: by kuaggie
not quite what I was asking.... what would happen to the SAs that we invested in that no longer "exist" for our position? would they be returned via SP or would they simply become whatever substitutes them in the tree?
Also would the ALGs be reverse engineered or only applied going forward?
Originally posted by catch22
SA's are still going to exist for every position - none of those are changing. You just need to be careful if you are going to select an archetype that you don't pick one where you have 10 invested in a SA that is getting a penalty.
Only applied going forward, no reverse engineering.
Question: by rockislandmike
Now *THAT* is an interesting idea. Let me pick the position, and then major/minor attributes for them. You'd definitely get some variation in "archetypes".
Originally posted by catch22
Discussed and shot down by Bort.
.
Question: by kuaggie
to the first one- are the points the ALG split up among all the attributes?
to the 2nd one- how would this be implemented exactly?
Originally posted by catch22
Yes, they are divided evenly between majors/minors (the number in parentheses is the gain for each of those at level 1)
It'll be implemented with a selection screen I imagine.
Question: by David Stern
The only thing I don't understand is "special teamer only" players...
Does this mean no centers/g/ot's are eligible to play special teams after s14?
Originally posted by catch22
No they can play ST's, they can't just choose the archetype.
Question: by Pwned IRL
Is this going to get voted on?
Originally posted by catch22
No.
Question: by TxSteve
did you consider adding some 'natural abilities'?
like maybe a 'hard hitter' LB gets a natural +5% force fumble (5% is made up - I'm thinking something meaningful but not overpowered)
man to man CB could get 5% INT
some things to further differentiate the archetypes beyond just the major/minor skills (which will certainly make a huge difference...bigger for some positions than others)
Originally posted by catch22
we won't be doing % increases - that's AEQ's purpose. We are going to be looking at adding a special SA for each archetype (as per the OP). After discussion on this has died down, I'll start working on that with a Suggestions post.
Question: by Jack Del Rio
when dealing with players a couple seasons old, could you also please run a script to also award us the difference in a flat bonus (or penalty, depending on if the old ALGs were higher than the new ALGs) of (level - 1) x (new ALG bonus - old ALG bonus)? or all that divided by 2 to make it a bit more fair?
it's a game of inches, man. 5+ major positions are going to be a bit inferior to their successors, while 3- major positions (mainly just K/P) are gonna have a slight advantage.
i don't know if it's worth the trouble. both the above idea, and this whole new system
Originally posted by catch22
That's not going to happen unfortunately. There will be a bit of a generational gap but it shouldn't be too bad with the options we have laid out for players.
Question: by BansheeTime
Swat Ball as a bonus for Speed DT? Why not Big Sack like it is for a Blitzing LB? Not that many DL enthusiasists invest into Big Sack, but I'm sure most would use it before touching Swat Ball.
Originally posted by catch22
Because most speed DT's don't get a lot of sacks but they do deflect a lot of passes at the line of scrimmage.
Question: by cbothe
As of right now i'd much rather not worry about player building and fix things in the actual game ai...we just got this new system to try out that could help make builds alot different and already we are changing it....I don't mind the new change, but switching to a whole brand new system I would hope i could withdraw flex if thats done. Thats not what i paid for and when i bought my flex it wasn't even mentioned in a future thing coming on glb.
Originally posted by catch22
You can keep your current players as is if you don't like the system. This is only for new players with an OPTION to choose it if you are a veteran player.
Question: by wchs63
Not a fan.. It will eventually make us choose the direction and there is no turning back or changing the build... Just another apporach to make us spend more money because a lot of people will butcher their players and want to start anew....
Originally posted by catch22
Yes because power backs all of the sudden become elusive backs halfway through their career and 300 pound run stuffing DE's all of a sudden become speed rushers. This will force people to be more focused on the types of builds they want. And there's nothing saying you can't choose a particular archetype and build your player differently within that archetype, you just need to be aware of how the gains/penalties/bonuses for that archetype work.
Question: by Nif
Why no O-Line combo option? The Defense all have one. Why only 200 flex point special teamers? Thanks and I'll take my answer off the air.
Originally posted by catch22
Because there was no combo option that we could come up with that would not have made it better than the two other choices (we discussed this one quite a bit).
Why only 200 flex point special teamers? Honestly, because if we allowed the players that were only 100 flex those would be the only ones ever made. Most positions are 200 flex anyway, so this allows for most players to get that archetype.
Question: by Furious_George
I love the idea, but will the success rate of the player be as random as it always has been?
Originally posted by catch22
It's a game based on a random number generator and probabilities, so the answer to that question will always be yes. There are things you can do to increase your chance of success though through player development.
Question: by TxSteve
Has there been any thought put into a major SA evaluation before this thing goes live? I still believe that the entire SA system could use a massive overhaul (a'la the VA overhaul a few seasons back).
As an example when I see that the DE/DT get either a bonus or penalty to "swat ball" I think to myself...so what...
Originally posted by catch22
Yes, we're going to be looking at balancing the SA's a bit to make them more effective and to have the bonuses/penalties to the archetypes be worthwhile.
Question: by ImTheScientist
So if Im a player this season, and I want a power WR, I can pick Power, and I will be awarded my ALGs that I missed out on in my first 14 lvls?
Originally posted by catch22
No. You'll get the ALG's from that point on, not retroactive applied.
Question: by Octowned
OK thanks - read through the thread to here and saw that discussion re-iterated.
The idea of like a pulling SPECIALIST o-line intrigued me is all. Built for pulling, downfield blocking, screens, etc. Could introduce speed into that without making an overpowered o-line, by majorly sacrificing strength/blocking.
Major: speed, agility, vision
Minor: strength, blocking, stamina or confidence
But OK, no suggestions on new/different archtypes Thanks!!
Originally posted by catch22
I guess that was more of a how many OL's are uber fast thing. Pass Blocking will allow you to do that one pretty well I think. Agility as a major and vision and speed as minors.
Question: by telencephalon
Until one of you guys figures out how to fix the division structure and the gutted/developing teams and the 255-0 scores, seriously what difference does this make?
Originally posted by catch22
Do you know how to fix it? I'm all ears - please pm the solution to me.
Question: by mikeandbrooke07
will we be told at least before the playoffs end if this will happen or not? that way owners can properly plan their team for next season
Originally posted by catch22
Assume it will happen - if for some reason it won't, I'll let everyone know the minute I find out.
Question: by bluesman845
Right now a DE can build the following sa's
Swat Ball...Wall...Strong Base...Diving Tackle...Monster Hit
First Step...Change Direction...Shed Block...Tunnel Vision...Big Sack
For a speed DE the bonus sa's are first step and tunnel vision and the penalty sa's are wall and strong base.
Will the other sa's like diving tackle, big sack etc still be available for the speed de's
Originally posted by catch22
All current SA's are still available, some will just get bonuses/penalties. You'll also be getting two bonus SA's (one that you can pick and one that will be specific to your archetype).
Question: by SCACE
I have to agree with a previous post about coordinating -- I don't think this change makes it much (if any) easier on the coordinators -- the back end (offense and defense AI creation and editing) needs a major rethink-overhaul -- I coordinated from S2 to S8 or 9 and finally just gave up -- I don't have the time, and countless others will say the same -- that part of the game is far too much like work when it should be fun and enjoyable.
Originally posted by catch22
I agree too and it's on my list of projects so it'll be addressed someday, not sure when though.
Question: by David Stern
What do you mean "coding it" coding the player creation process?
Or how he re codes how things work?
Originally posted by catch22
The creation process and the process for all the little nuances (SA's, refunds, 300 flex points to be used for player creation but are not refundable).
I'm surprised no one has said thanks for the 300 flex for player creation btw. I thought that was nice of us.
Question: by Octowned
I'm an o-line junkie, I'd just like to see some light response on these, even if it is "go away, no":
Was there (or could there be) discussion on differentiating the builds on the o-line?
Pretending the positions require the same attributes is silly.
We just got a pulling guard VA, the idea of first step being added... sounds like a run blocker to me... but run blocker has no speed gains still. Seems like a massive contradiction/oversight.
Originally posted by catch22
Ugh I hate to say it to you but "go away, no"
It was all discussed (almost to the point of insanity). We had a Combo OL build but just couldn't make it work without it being overpowered. There is still plenty of potential for OL diversity.
Question: by mikeandbrooke07
awesome. so is this pretty much a go for next season? in case some of us owners are thinking about starting over with this?
Originally posted by catch22
well that depends on Bort coding it and how testing of it goes, but this is the plan yes.
Question: by BengalDuck
Also, Power WR should have Stiff Arm, Power Thru, or LTS.
Originally posted by catch22
then choose that as your bonus SA.
Question: by bluesman845
1) Players created before the archetypes were implemented will be allowed a one time archetype selection. This is optional and you will only have until the end of the pre-season to do so. When you select the archetype, you will start getting the ALG's and SA bonuses/penalties and will be allowed to select the bonus SA.
It says here that if we select the one time archetype for a current player that when you select it you will start getting the AGL's for that player. Does that mean that the players entire build will change and he will get the new agl's for the entire build or will he only start getting the new agl's from the time we select it and on.
Also on the sa's players have 8 regular sa's as of now. Will we still have as many with the ones listed as bonus and penalty sa's and the rest just normal sa's.
Originally posted by catch22
Only get them from the time of the selection, no retroactive points applied. Not sure I understand your 2nd question.
Question: by SCACE
didn't see it answered -- any thought to allowing us to just lay out a player's SA's from a giant list -- maybe keep in the Bonus and Negative SA's in the list (which is 4 I guess) but let us choose the other 6 + our bonus?
The more options we have when starting a player, the more creative we can be with the player and the more variety.
Originally posted by catch22
Discussed - decided against.
Question: by F8n4tune
Wow then just do it now then ? Whats the point of waiting ?
Originally posted by catch22
We could have just rolled it out with no discussion like most changes have been implemented in the past. I'm actually trying to get the word out well ahead of time for a change so people are aware of it and can prepare. Novel concept I know.
Question: by volcomrj
needs either rushing QB or changes to scrambling QB
major speed and agility
Originally posted by catch22
Discussed - shot down for a multitude of reasons.
Question: by GrogMan
the height/weight restrictions as a choice for archetype are really troubling, as it has been a VERY recent addition of configurable height/weights...
I am on a team that slow built to prepare for s.15 DOMINATION, and we have an ENTIRE roster of players who were created just before heights and weights could be selected on build start. Many of our guys were started with the old ideas of height/weight distribution on random rolls, and now we are suddenly presented with "holes" in our overall build plan because some of our players are the incorrect SIZE to choose the archetype for the roles they have built to...
I posted an example of my DE, who was created as a combo DE, at 250 LB, but the restrictions imposed by this plan do not let me select any archetype except speed.
I also have a C who weighs 327, and I cannot select anything except RUN blocker as an archetype.
This problem runs throughout MANY of the players on our team, and through no fault of our agents, they are prevented from selecting certain roles...
Can we see a lossening of the height/weight restrictions on archetypes for players created before s.14?
Our team has a a good amount of time invested in our build plan, but the players are NOT so old that retirement is an option...
Originally posted by catch22
The restrictions will just be for newly created players, not old ones. You'll be able to select an archetype outside of the restrictions if you are not a newly created player.
Question: by volcomrj
needs either rushing QB or changes to scrambling QB
major speed and agility
Originally posted by catch22
Discussed - shot down for a multitude of reasons.
Question: by Kayoh
Just one thing, is there a reason that Stamina is a minor for the Run Blocker and Speed is not? The extra Strength that the Run Blocker makes Stamina even less important to that guy than the Pass Blocker, and the Pass Blocker doesn't have Stamina as a minor, so it's a bit superfluous for the Run Blocker to have it. Speed is important to run blocking because if you manage to pancake the first man you need to be able to get to the second level.
Originally posted by catch22
Yes, it's because if you had Speed as a minor to Run Blocker it would pretty much eliminate any reason to choose Pass Blocker. We looked at a lot of factors when coming up with these, including how they compared to the other archetypes. You can still train and put point in speeds as a Run Blocker, you're just not getting an ALG for it.
Question: by Brutus Buckeye
I do think that custom slots for almost every position will be needed now to be able to take full advantage.
Originally posted by catch22
I asked Bort about that a couple weeks ago - NGTH.
Question: by neoliminal
♥ Oh, then please ignore my previous comments. ♥
Originally posted by catch22
We are going to be taking suggestions for the Custom SA for each archetype though. I'll be posting info on that tomorrow in the Suggestions forum, so by all means take a look at it and make suggestions.
ok let me reiterate something.
We're not taking suggestions to changing or adding new archetypes. I'll go add that to the OP. What you see here is what you're getting.
Question: by odg62
this sounds great, wish it had happened earlier
not reading through 21 pages but 2 things....
260 pound QBs? If their not statues i sure hope they dont break sacks like PBs break tackles
and for the bonus SA's, say i build a zone FS, super vision is already one of his SA's, so does he start with like a +2 in SV or something? How exactly would that work?
Originally posted by catch22
Mat did the height/weight ranges. He pulled data from somewhere.
Question: by neoliminal
It doesn't make sense for a power back to have First Step either...but you're letting me take that.
Originally posted by catch22
Ummm.
HB Power
5'11" - 6'4", 210-260 Lbs
Major Agility Carrying Confidence Strength (+.5)
Minor Catching Speed Stamina Vision (+.25)
Bonus SA's - Lower Shoulder, Power Thru
Penalty SA's - First Step, Spin
Question: by OBFuSCaTe
I like this idea and look forward to the implementation. I am assuming if there aren't any issues with testing, the implementation will begin next season. Question: Does that mean the current player creation will no longer be available starting next season, or when?
Originally posted by catch22
When the new system rolls out it will replace the current creation system.
Question: by neoliminal
For my "bonus" SA, may I choose a penalty SA to remove the penalty?
Originally posted by catch22
No. The penalties are there for a reason. It doesn't make sense for a power back to have elusive back abilities, so we are discouraging taking those SA's.
Question: by crd521
Just saw a need for a disclaimer here: I don't know Catch22, or whoever his previous agent was because he was probably way before my time, so I don't intend to come off as defending Catch22, or trying to sell this idea to anybody. Not telling anyone else to trust him or the group who came up with this, just saying that I trust that the real idea behind this idea is to improve the game. My point was basically just a vote of confidence for the idea in general, and was saying I am glad this discussion is happening, in order to polish it up and make it workable whenever they do decide to implement it. I totally understand some of the points of those who do not support this idea, many have merit, and with any luck these issues will be taken into account before this is finalized.
Originally posted by catch22
http://goallineblitz.com/game/home.pl?user_id=11685 = Catch22
I was probably among the top 100 customers here in terms of dollars spent. I definitely have the players core interests at the root of my decision making processes.
Question: by blazzinken
#3, I agree 100%....No one is going to make a pass blocking lineman besides maybe at LOT..and maybe at LG...but I doubt it.
Originally posted by catch22
Are you sure about that. Ask Octowned what he thinks now.
Question: by punkaweedus
Catch22 -- Please explain how this idea is going to create LESS cookie cutter builds. From what I've read in this thread, especially with the bonuses/penalties based on build type selected at player creation, it will actually force agents into selecting certain skills/attributes over others because of the penalties. Sure you COULD accept the penalty and dump points into that skill, but you'd be stupid do to so. This is especially the case with SAs. If I build an elusive HB and dump enough SPs to get 10 in Power Thru, I should have 10 in Power Thru... not be penalized to only 8. In fact it sounds like you're penalizing me for NOT having a cookie cutter elusive HB build.
IMO this player development change is limiting builds (because of attribute bonuses/penalties) rather than allowing user creativity to do whatever they want.
I will say that I do like the idea of allowing an additional SA outside of the two standard trees. This is huge for LBs especially, as the SA trees suck. I'd love to see Superior Vision as a standard SA for LBs.
Originally posted by catch22
See the excellent quote at the end of the OP.
Question: by Octowned
This (regarding blocking TE turning into a receiving TE) just made me realize that having DCs tag based on archtype will be a MASSIVE FAIL. Building blocking FBs to run, power backs to catch, blocking TEs to run deep balls, etc., will totally exploit the tagging system, and quite easily at that. The ALGs aren't so unbalanced as to prevent these crossover builds from trying to trick the system.
Please keep that in mind
Originally posted by catch22
It'll just be a tagging option, not the sole means for tagging. You'll still have the current tags.
Question: by Octowned
If SAs over 10 count as "fractions", is the bonus applied BEFORE that fraction, or after?
What I mean is, the sim takes your SA value and plugs it into a formula. When you take an SA to 15, it uses, for example, 13 in that formula. Whereas at 10, it just uses 10.
If these +20% take 10 to 12, does the formula use 12 (as if 12 were your base), or plug 12 into the formula? As if you actually had 14 or something like that.
I'm pretty sure I nailed my understanding of how SAs over 10 work, and maybe this hasn't been thought of yet - basically the question is - does the bonus apply before or after that "over 10 check" is performed?
Originally posted by catch22
I'm not the one coding it so I can't really give you a definite answer but the way it's supposed to work is to look at the final SA score and add/deduct the bonus/penalty based on whatever that score is.
Question: by Seric
Could you give me a little more information on how this works? You say if your player is <120 days old as of the first day after the rollover into the new season, you get more back. Then yough have 1-40 days old, 41-80 days old, 81-120 days old. All of which are lower the 120 not higher than. Also as you get older, you get less back. I'd think it would make more sense to have it the other way as there is more invested in the older players vs the newer players. By the way this looks, 11 of my players won't be able to do this, 4 of them will be at 119 days old, 1 will be at 107 days old, and the rest will be either just under 100 or lower. So I'd only be able to use this for 14 of my players by my understanding.
I probably have this wrong so let me know.
Originally posted by catch22
I'm not sure what your question is. We're giving more to younger players because they are the ones most directly impacted by the change. The older you are the more of a level gap there is and the less of an impact you are experiencing. We could have not returned anything but thought with the massive overhaul that we'd at least try and do a little something for people that had built a player in the last three seasons and decided they wanted to start over (which you completely don't have to do, it's just an option).
Question: by Octowned
If archtype specific SAs are added, will they be excluded from the AEQ store?
Speaking of the AEQ store, when will "Hands" be added back to the options of rollable SAs? I've asked this for like 6 seasons now, lol
Originally posted by catch22
Yea, they would be excluded from AEQ.
Question: by cubsluver22
This whole idea is gonna further split the gap between the good and the bad. Sure I can plan this whole deal out to a tee and have my team ready. What's gonna happen though is the competition is gonna get even worse than it already is. This whole idea sounds good upfront but the underlying fact is its gonna involve team staff to work/plan that much harder. The game is turning into a job for players like me who enjoy owning a team. Great Staff is already hard to find for most and I'm sure this will further worsen that.
The exploits of this new system will be sought after and found. Then support will spend all their time on nerfing them instead of working on things that truly need to be fixed with the sim.
Sorry guys but it just seems to me that were getting to a point where 1 little problem is being turned into an over-compensated bigger problem every time we turn around. I spend close to 20k flex a season and its getting to where I don't wanna spend any!
Originally posted by catch22
I actually think it'll narrow the gap not make it wider. Now people that build crappy players will have ALG's that make sense for their position for the most part which isn't the case now. The worst players will be better ones under this system.
Question: by jdros13
bonus SA - you have 8 in it, but it has a hidden bonus that makes it like you have 10
penalty SA - you have 10 in it, but it has a hidden penalty that makes it like you have 8
edit: I don't know if that is what is actually is, but that's the idea.
Originally posted by catch22
That's the general premise behind it, yes.
Question: by footballisgod
Players that have already been created who are choosing an archetype don't have to follow the height/weight requirements from what I understand.
Originally posted by catch22
This is correct, just newly created players.
Question: by Saris
Also any thoughts on Archetype specific VA's? This might fix some issues such as the previously mentioned combo HB's being better at power than Power HB's are.
Originally posted by catch22
There will be an archetype specific SA (see OP). Going to start discussion on that tomorrow in Suggestions.
Question: by B-T-A
What about the Safety Position having the Returner Archetype, I could easily name 5 FS's that have returned kicks on a consistent basis in the NFL in the last 5 years.
Originally posted by catch22
I could agree with that one (not sure why we didn't include them tbh, brain dump I guess)
Question: by beenlurken
Why not make them 100 FP?
Originally posted by catch22
Because they can still play other positions? (even with crappy attributes that don't match their position)
A suggestion to have a new position "STOP" and have that player be 100 flex wouldn't be a terrible suggestion.
Question: by beenlurken
I couldnt agree more... hence the reason why I said bort was doing it for money
Originally posted by catch22
Bort had very little to do with this plan other than wanting it to get done and giving me the go ahead to start working on it and signing off on final approval. The only 200 flex point player for STOP was my idea. I'm salaried, I don't get any money from flex sales. There were other reasons for that choice.
I have no problem removing the STOP archetype. It wasn't there on the initial list but was added after discussion. That would be the one suggestion I'm more than happy to live with.
I think Guppy is asking why FB's can't have the returner archetype.
I tell you what, if you can name 5 fullbacks that have returned kicks on a consistent basis in the the NFL in the last 20 years, I'll let them choose the archetype.
Question: by FBGProfessor
Am I the only one who thinks Catch22 is DD in disguise?
Originally posted by catch22
I'm WAY too nice to be DD.
Question: by footballisgod
Oh, that was just because Catch was looking for a little love among all the hate being spewed. A preemptive thanks for the eventual flex. lol
Originally posted by catch22
well most of the hate is coming from 10 people so I don't really let that bother me. I'm very confident that once this system rolls out and people are using it that they'll love it. There will always be people that don't like something, especially on the Internet. This was a well thought out and discussed plan - it wasn't something we just threw together in one day. If you've thought about it, we probably discussed its merits.
Question: by chief c
Well, I gotta admit. I've been reading this post off and on for over an hour now
and you guys have explained it about as well as Obama explained nationalizing health care
Originally posted by catch22
What would you like explained? The OP covers most of it in depth but I'll be more than glad to explain something you don't understand to you.
Question: by Octowned
Any thought to spreading the influence of casual style leagues, but using archtype based AIs?
Basically make the AI simpler... Pre-set packages called long pass, medium pass, short run, etc., the obvious stuff, then use basic settings to work the AI from there, with the understanding that the AI will use your packages as the backbone.
The playbook selections could be used by selecting RB: (drop down for archtypes on your team). So this medium-styled OC system would allow specialized play calling, etc., without the burden of massive AI structures. Sounds like a much more user friendly but still flexible environment.
I think cookie-cutter shelled AIs are the way to go. Allow quarter or down specific basic %s, a few basic package selections, and incorporate archtypes smartly.
On the defensive side, allow customization of defensive plays and packages, and keep the "tag the archtype" concept, but again force plays into specific packages.
Originally posted by catch22
One of my projects is to create an intermediate league, something that is between casual and the current regular leagues - it's a lot like what you outlined above.
Question: by psychonathan
idk if you already touched on this subject, but will we be able to reset the penalty SA's on our players?
Originally posted by catch22
No. Those are fixed per archetype.
Question: by czman
There was an alpha stage to this game with many plenty of players and Bort still need not get the natural level gains correct.
This is the biggest thing to happen to GLB.
If it done correctly it will make balancing the game very easy. If it is rolled out to soon and done incorrectly, it might make things worse.
Why is everyone in such a hurry. What do we as a player base gain by getting a product that is not tested fully.
I took about 3-5 seasons with thousands of players to figure out the best way to build and find loopholes in the natural level gains. Why do we think that a dozen people can do it in 40 days? I know we have a better knowledge base a group now but that does not mean that proper testing can be done in time.
I can promise you that there are going to be huge problems if this is rolled out as suggested. After looking at it for about 10 minutes I found a few things that are going to cause huge problems, unless there are major changes done. If there are major sim changes the changes will need to be tested too. Which leads me back to my primary point; there is too much that needs to be tested to roll this out too soon.
For once can GLB try and take a page for blizzard or bioware and push out changes when they are ready .
Originally posted by catch22
By all means if you see something unbalanced, please point it out. While I said I wouldn't take suggestions, I am more than welcome to hear about any potential game/balance issues:
This is a huge game changing system and while we've tried to address everything, it is possible we missed something - this is why we're opening it up for discussion now rather than just introducing the improvement. However, we are not taking suggestions to changing archetypes or adding new ones. If you see an unbalanced archetype, by all means bring it up and we'll look at it.
Question: by The Avenger
1) Players created before the archetypes were implemented will be allowed a one time archetype selection. This is optional and you will only have until the end of the pre-season to do so. When you select the archetype, you will start getting the ALG's and SA bonuses/penalties and will be allowed to select the bonus SA. The height/weight restrictions are only for newly created players so you do not need to worry about those when choosing your archetype (if you are not a newly created player).
3 questions:
1. Is there any cost to us using BT's or FP's to make this switch to archetype?
2. Will the sim support normal game action with non-archs and new archetypes on the field at the same time? (will we see new exploits untested between these interactions?)
3. What happens to pre-invested SA's in our builds if we make this switch and now there are bonuses and penalties to them?
Originally posted by catch22
1. No cost. You select which archetype you want and from then on you will get the benefits/penalties associated with it.
2. It should - still needs to be tested but I can't see that being a problem.
3. You will get the bonus or penalty applied to them, which is why you should be careful selecting your archetype since it's a permanent choice.
Question: by chefsjg71
Alrighty, I'm sold then. I could handle starting over with the time aspect as I've had fun. Got very solid agents and I'm also trying to look out for their expense as well if we considered restarting a team in its 5th season. Catch 22, I think you've been great on the forums and I see you bridging the gap between admin and agent. Thanks..
Originally posted by catch22
No problem chefs, thanks for discussing it in a calm and rational manner.
Question: by BansheeTime
Turn the Shoulder as a penalized SA would be a bit of a contradiction, imo, too.
Originally posted by catch22
Yep and I actually agree with that one - we didn't take into account the VA. Will figure out a different penalty. That's the type of suggestion I will take.
Question: by monsterkill
new archetype-specific SAs? should probably mention that in the OP.
Originally posted by catch22
It is.
Question: by cubsluver22
That's another statement I see that flies around more and more Everyday. Not gonna make every customer happy! Looks to me more customers are displeased with this idea than pleased! Again some things needed to be tweaked not over hauled!
Originally posted by catch22
You seriously think that? I've seen 10-15 people not like the idea at most, it's just those 10-15 people are posting over and over again.
Question: by chefsjg71
Those of us that understand its a RPG as well understand that the benefit of having a superior player is in the percentage increases that the rolls will go your way. How is it not more beneficial to not just reroll a team as opposed to trading them into the new archetype players. Notice I said beneficial and you said basically you don't have to. Sort of a big difference there.. Being that the auto leveling is changing, you would benefit from scraping and starting over. The cost of doing so if what a lot of us are having the problem with. Not the new system I'm thinking....
Originally posted by catch22
There is a bigger return if you do want to start over. You'd be getting back more than the normal 70% that a player normally gets. We tried to account for this at least somewhat.
Question: by reddogrw
so basically, I'll never be able to get a LB with a couple of pieces of SV - which really sucks since their SA trees are horrible
or a CB KR/PR with 2 pieces of Spin
I think this decision needs to be revisited, unless I am not reading things correctly
Originally posted by catch22
Ummm no you can get AEQ with SV. This has nothing to do with the current AEQ.
For example, let's say we make a Scrambling Passer Custom SA - it'll be something like "Runs Fast" - THIS SA would not be available through AEQ, all the other ones would still be.
Question: by BansheeTime
Regarding the Blitzing LB, is there any logic go adding Jumping as a major other than the fact that adding Strength or Vision would be too OP?
Originally posted by catch22
Nope that was pretty much it - as said some of the choices were too balance the archetypes between the position.
Question: by reddogrw
can you elaborate on this
if SA's aren't in an archtype, they won't ever be in your store?
or did I miss something here
Originally posted by catch22
We're going to be doing a archetype specific SA that will only be available for that archetype.
Question: by FBGProfessor
To be honest, this attitude is what reminds of DD (and I am not convinced that you have another GLB identity as DD could have many). I confess that as I read what other people write in here I am understanding this better and I am not as negative as I was at first. But your arrogant and condescending attitude really is not a good way to sell the idea. This post is another example of it. Of course Bort can do whatever he wants as he owns this game. But I stopped buying Flex when it became clear to me that as a customer I wasn't respected. The way this is being introduced and your attitude that really you aren't interested in taking suggestions to improve doesn't make feel like things are any different. I'll keep playing with my existing flex and waiting to see if the customer service improves. One can hope...
Originally posted by catch22
If you really think I don't respect customers or try and help them, you haven't been paying attention. There was a reason for not taking suggestions - because then the whole concept would become one giant suggestions thread and that's not what the purpose of this thread is.
Making customers happy is my number one priority but if there is one thing I know as gospel it is that I will never make every customer happy. I'm more than happy to talk with anyone and everyone about their issues though but sometimes you have to be firm about things and say no to get things done.
Question: by cubsluver22
I've already spent well over 100 dollars this season! I will have to buy more flex b4 it's over. I should get to throw out my opinion/suggestion! I spent two seasons planning out a team, only to have to redo it all over again this ffseason! I will say this again, its getting to be that when a problem arises instead of tweaking it a bit, the problem is being overcompensated for when it gets fixed. That overcompensation is creating that many more problems.
Yes this deal has alot well thought out ideas but its gonna open up another huge can of worms that alot of us just don't think is worth the gain of this fix.
Originally posted by catch22
Why do you have to redo it? You really don't.
Question: by Kircdrb
Then why even ask for opinions? Too humor us? Did you learn that in customer satisfaction class?
Just make a post saying this is how it's going to be. That's how it's always been.
Originally posted by catch22
I never asked for opinions. This is a discussion thread, not a suggestion thread. I'm more than happy to listen to your opinion and answer your questions, but this isn't about trying to change the archetypes plan and the OP is pretty clear on that (I don't think anyone reads the OP from the sounds of it).
Question: by cubsluver22
That's the kinda attitude that's gonna run paying customers like myself off! This is supposed to be about the customer and getting them to spend money! I've noticed a increase in this type of attitude. Wander how long a restaurant would run if they told you their menu is changing pay for it and eat it or go away!
Originally posted by catch22
My apologies - it's stated quite clearly in the OP that this is a discussion thread, not a suggestions thread. I've also stated at least five times that we would not be taking a poll or voting on this. I was being funny and it obviously wasn't to you. Sorry...
Question: by Saris
How set in stone is this btw? It would help to know in order to adjust our build plans over the course of this season to the new ALG's.
Originally posted by catch22
Pretty set. Bort might make a change or two when coding the project but for the most part what you see is what you are going to get.
Question: by footballisgod
What would the major/minor be? How would it not be too overpowered in the long run? I think every combination you come up with makes it significantly stronger than the other two options. So now people have to choose.
Originally posted by catch22
this was precisely why there is no Combo OL.
Question: by digitalspirit
Maybe you haven't done a good enough job convincing us otherwise.
Originally posted by catch22
It's a pretty simple concept. Read the OP.
Now when you build a player you have NO choices as to what ALG's you use. With this system, you will have multiple choices PLUS a bonus SA PLUS a archetype specific SA. Way more options than we currently have.
Question: by BlakeDawg
lets put this to a vote!!!
Originally posted by catch22
all these people thinking this leads to more cookie cutter builds are so far off it's funny. It's WAY less cookie cutter than the current player development system.
