Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Behn
Dude I didn't even know what circle capping WAS until this thread. I just do what I do because that's how I do it. I never said it was right or wrong, or better than anyone else's methods of building.

What I do works for me , but I did also say, in either this thread or that other one, that I am going to try some dots this season the way you are explaining.

I don't know what to call the way I build my players, so from here on out it shall be referred to as:

Isosceles Triangle Building
It's cool. Normally I don't get all anal and preachy about builds, but Shrazkil pissed me off by trying to insist that I'm wrong when he's him and I'm me. I always advise people to build however the fuck you want, since this is supposed to be fun. I certainly don't do it perfectly. I don't use spreadsheets or plan my builds out in advance, I just wing it and hope for the best. Sometimes that means I screw up, but that can be kind of fun too.

Originally posted by jdbolick

I always advise people to build however the fuck you want, since this is supposed to be fun. I certainly don't do it perfectly. I don't use spreadsheets or plan my builds out in advance, I just wing it and hope for the best. Sometimes that means I screw up, but that can be kind of fun too.

OMG, you are Isosceles Triangle Building™ and you didn't even know it

Thanks for all the input.

Looks like I was following the jdbolick school of building but my dots are just massive fail.

Oh well.

Originally posted by jdbolick

, but Shrazkil pissed me off by trying to insist that I'm wrong when he's him and I'm me.
Someones got a big head.

I'll quit arguing about it, for the most part this is a difference in importance of stats. I prefer High primary secondary, and very good minors and rounded stats, you prefer slightly higher primary/secondary and ok minors. We can go blow for blow and compare end builds, but without a set of newer dots from you, accurate comparisons are hard to do. I can tell you get some great end EL as well, and to be honest, ill try out some VPB runs delaying MT to see how i like it. Im not above anything that works well. My dots will see yours in the WL, some next year, more the next. I just prefer the high SP to Train ratio from starting MT early. Five of my 6 oldest dots are experiments anyway, my main concern is newly created dots under the new system.

Originally posted by Shrazkil

Someones got a big head.

I'll quit arguing about it, for the most part this is a difference in importance of stats. I prefer High primary secondary, and very good minors and rounded stats, you prefer slightly higher primary/secondary and ok minors. We can go blow for blow and compare end builds, but without a set of newer dots from you, accurate comparisons are hard to do. I can tell you get some great end EL as well, and to be honest, ill try out some VPB runs delaying MT to see how i like it. Im not above anything that works well. My dots will see yours in the WL, some next year, more the next. I just prefer the high SP to Train ratio from starting MT early. Five of my 6 oldest dots are experiments anyway, my main concern is newly created dots under the new system.





you just got bolicked

Originally posted by jdbolick

It's cool. Normally I don't get all anal and preachy about builds, but Shrazkil pissed me off by trying to insist that I'm wrong when he's him and I'm me. I always advise people to build however the fuck you want, since this is supposed to be fun. I certainly don't do it perfectly. I don't use spreadsheets or plan my builds out in advance, I just wing it and hope for the best. Sometimes that means I screw up, but that can be kind of fun too.

This. I hate when people always say "RETIRE THIS DOT NOW" and stuff...this game would be much less fun if I took it that srsly

Originally posted by PatrickStump
This. I hate when people always say "RETIRE THIS DOT NOW" and stuff...this game would be much less fun if I took it that srsly

I agree. We wouldn't win near as much if everybody built good dots

Originally posted by jdbolick

No, it really isn't. Circle capping early on means that your second and third attributes will never be as high end-build as they could have been otherwise. So you actually lose SPs and player value over the long-term, even if it makes the player value seem higher in the short-term.


JD, you're wrong on this one. Would you like to see the mathematical proof?

I've already done a proof showing the best way to train and buy bonuses for first post-season and first preseason. I can add another one demonstrating the utility of circle capping. However, it's based on the assumption that quad-training is best after the first few days of the first season, and that BTs are limited to 4 attributes unlocked for secondary training. Without those assumptions the other attributes don't approach the level of diminishing training returns.

Really, circle capping is about preserving training value. Dedicated capping (of one attribute) is about maximizing ALGs. After the first season, and about halfway through the second season, ALGs are diminished and so their corresponding value diminishes. Training never diminishes in value.

Circle capping has a secondary use as well. If your third major attribute is closer, in SP, to a cap than your secondary major attribute, then you will be able to cap the third major sooner and get greater ALG benefit (depending on decimals and training). This has less of an effect than the training value after the first season, but it's still significant even when receiving only 0.38 in ALG per level.

Training never diminishes in value? wait what??

Originally posted by Behn
Training never diminishes in value? wait what??

an attribute at 80 trains the same at level 5 as it does at level 60.
ALGs on the other hand are much different.

What he's trying to suggest is that there is an optimal time to stop worrying about algs and to start worrying about training gains. Depending on how many trains you unlock and the number of enhancements you do, there is an exact formula to get the most SP value on any dot.

Then again, sp value doesn't mean much when confidence and stamina are stuck at 20

I agree with bolick. I now try to stay away from circle capping as much as possible, and one of the best ways is to train the first attribute on intense whilst taking it up, starting multi a season later.

I use circle capping only if it makes sense depending on where my attributes are at, but otherwise i pretty much just build as jdbolick described, and stick to applying SPs to attributes one at a time. I try to only use circle capping after I'm completely done putting SPs into my 2nd most important attribute, but it doesn't always work out that way.

Too many people fail to see the value in, and the value lost, if you wait to multi-train, all those alg's your 3-8 stats accumulate, lower your training gains significantly. The value of doing it bolicks way is a more obvious one, higher primaries plus alg's = good. But the loss is SP value by not being able to raise early and cap just keeps piling on. So while you get the rediculous bump to EL from having like 106-108 in primary, you are loosing 30-60 EL in every other attribute past like 2nd or worse yet, spending way more actual SP points to achieve it.

Originally posted by jdbolick
I suppose it depends on when exactly he meant. A lot of people only multi-train that first season, but that's a mistake. You should focus training on the first attribute until it's at least third capped, then you switch over to multi-training.

3rd cap happens around day 10-12 ish right? Then you'd say its ok to multi train?

Assuming I'm reading correctly.

Originally posted by Shrazkil
Too many people fail to see the value in, and the value lost, if you wait to multi-train, all those alg's your 3-8 stats accumulate, lower your training gains significantly. The value of doing it bolicks way is a more obvious one, higher primaries plus alg's = good. But the loss is SP value by not being able to raise early and cap just keeps piling on. So while you get the rediculous bump to EL from having like 106-108 in primary, you are loosing 30-60 EL in every other attribute past like 2nd or worse yet, spending way more actual SP points to achieve it.

without the primary attributes being really high the secondary ones don't matter